Bluegill stocking mattamuskeet?

[Duckmauler dhc]

I just read that the ncwrc is stocking 75,000 bluegill in Matt to try and control the grass carp population. I just don’t quite understand the rationale of anything the ncwrc does. They’re going to put a species of fish that the lake was loaded with before the grass and everything else died in hopes of surviving in an environment that it didn’t survive in to begin with. All because they might eat the carp eggs. I fish a lot of places that have tons of bluegill as well as grass carp and the bluegill didn’t slow their growth in any of those places. Just curious if anyone else saw this and your thoughts. I know I bash the ncwrc early and often and for good reason. I know they have a limited amount of resources but for Gods sakes please do something useful with what you have. I’ve heard it all now.

 

[Roanoke]

Even if you get the right kind of SAV's back in that lake we will never see the ducks like years past unless there is a freeze. There is too much food on private land that is properly managed.

 

[Dick]

I have seen a club just off the lake that has hundreds of flood able fields for water fowl hunting. Thus club had 15000 acres. unreal setup. that's only one property.

 

[darenative]

With the amount of bowfin in the lake, those bluegill will last a week

 

[darkthirty]

As a former fisheries biologist, that confuses the daylights out of me..........I have never....ever.....heard of doing that.

 

[shotgunner]

I was hoping to hear more about a bowfishing tournament down there. We could work on the carp and bowfin the right time of year.

 

[darkthirty]

I was hoping to hear more about a bowfishing tournament down there. We could work on the carp and bowfin the right time of year.

Gotta buddy that went down there about a month ago with lights and they fished for 4-5 hours and shot 4 gar. Lol. He said they were in places that looked like should hold a pile of carp and they never saw the first one. Never even saw mud clouds where fish were blowing out. He said “for them to be blaming all the carp on the problems, you’d think we’d saw at least one.” Haha

 

[vibesalive]

I just read that the ncwrc is stocking 75,000 bluegill in Matt to try and control the grass carp population. I just don’t quite understand the rationale of anything the ncwrc does. They’re going to put a species of fish that the lake was loaded with before the grass and everything else died in hopes of surviving in an environment that it didn’t survive in to begin with. All because they might eat the carp eggs. I fish a lot of places that have tons of bluegill as well as grass carp and the bluegill didn’t slow their growth in any of those places. Just curious if anyone else saw this and your thoughts. I know I bash the ncwrc early and often and for good reason. I know they have a limited amount of resources but for Gods sakes please do something useful with what you have. I’ve heard it all now.

Read it again. It clearly says common carp. Aren't they planning on also removing tons of the common carp in the near future. Sounds reasonable to me if you have the facts right.

 

[Duckmauler dhc]

As a former fisheries biologist, that confuses the daylights out of me..........I have never....ever.....heard of doing that.

Neither have I. I’m not biologist but I am smart enough to know from experience that bluegill are far from the solution for this lake. And common carp, grass carp......whatever is in there. The grass was gone long before it was loaded with carp.

 

[Buxndiverdux]

Gotta buddy that went down there about a month ago with lights and they fished for 4-5 hours and shot 4 gar. Lol. He said they were in places that looked like should hold a pile of carp and they never saw the first one. Never even saw mud clouds where fish were blowing out. He said “for them to be blaming all the carp on the problems, you’d think we’d saw at least one.” Haha

Did they recently make it legal to night fish?

 

[darkthirty]

Some refuge person put a message on fb that they were needing carp. My buddies called them to verify before they left and they said come on. That’s the extent of how much I know.

 

[vibesalive]

As I understand it, with the grass gone, the common carp stir up the bottom sediments and cause turbidity, so removing those fish en masse is being done to improve the water quality in the lake to the point the grass can survive. They have already shown the grass will survive if common carp are excluded when the grass is replanted.

The carp have been in the lake for decades, and the last time the Refuge removed these bottom feeding fish the water quality improved and sav took hold and the lake was wrapped up.

The original post was just misinformation , imo. But some people just like to complain I guess.

 

[shotgunner]

Not to be negative....................but why do the carp stir up the water so bad in this one lake. Most lakes in the US now have common carp. They do not have a lot of predators once they reach 8 or 10 pounds. Not sure I buy this theory. Seems they would cause the same issue all over the country if common carp are the problem. I would love to see some research and or data on this. Also having bowfished over much of NC and SC I can tell you if there are that many carp...............I would sure love to get in there during the fool moon one April.

 

[vibesalive]

I am assuming since the sav, when present, is rooted to the bottom of the lake, when it's gone their is nothing to stablize the bottom sediment from becoming re-suspended in the water column by wave action and storms. Carp, which are bottom feeders, add to that problem, epecially since there are tons of them in the lake.

I read all this in a really great article in WINC a few years back. Maybe somebody can find that article, I can't.

 

[darkthirty]

I just can’t grasp it. I’d think the tannins in the water block more light than what bottom feeders would do.
all I know is if my group of buddies can take a bow fishing rig at night and spend 5-7 hours on a body of water and not see ONE single carp, it tells me they’re not as thick as you think. Don’t give “too early” or it wasn’t the best time of year because we have shot fish all 12 months of the year. We have been bow fishing 25 years and that was the first time in 25 years he was shut out on not just shooting a carp, but he didn’t even see one.

 

[shurshot]

Question. Nearby New Lake and Phelps Lake have basically the same type of water (tannish) and avg. depth as does Skeet. I don’t think their SAV’s are depleted (still lots of ducks and swans feeding on them) and I’ve never heard of anyone complaining about it. Maybe Conman (lick guy) can shed some light but if this is true, how then do those lake keep their SAV alive? Lake of carp? Or lack of impoundments dumping their nutrient rich water back into the lake? Or ????. Complex question I know.

 

[shotgunner]

Question. Nearby New Lake and Phelps Lake have basically the same type of water (tannish) and avg. depth as does Skeet. I don’t think their SAV’s are depleted (still lots of ducks and swans feeding on them) and I’ve never heard of anyone complaining about it. Maybe Conman (lick guy) can shed some light but if this is true, how then do those lake keep their SAV alive? Lake of carp? Or lack of impoundments dumping their nutrient rich water back into the lake? Or ????. Complex question I know.

Great post. Sort of what I was saying but you did it much better.

 

[vibesalive]

Question. Nearby New Lake and Phelps Lake have basically the same type of water (tannish) and avg. depth as does Skeet. I don’t think their SAV’s are depleted (still lots of ducks and swans feeding on them) and I’ve never heard of anyone complaining about it. Maybe Conman (lick guy) can shed some light but if this is true, how then do those lake keep their SAV alive? Lake of carp? Or lack of impoundments dumping their nutrient rich water back into the lake? Or ????. Complex question I know.

okay

 

[todobien]

Here is info re: the carp removal in the 50s.

Error - North Carolina Digital Collections

digital.ncdcr.gov

I don't think New Lake or Pungo Lake have much or any grass in them and are thus used as roost/loafing lakes mostly.

 

[vibesalive]

I called the refuge and spoke to the manager there at Mattamuskeet. He confirmed that the plan is to remove carp from the lake beginning in 2022. He said there was over 1.5 million pounds of carp biomass currently in the lake, and that those carp are degrading water quality as I surmised above after reading earlier reports. He also said that they have recently installed gates on the lake outlet canals to prevent carp from entering the lake. He also said the bluegill were stocked to allow them to feed on carp eggs.

Seems like an awful lot of trouble to go to if there are no carp in the lake.

He also said Phelps, Pungo and New Lake are devoid of nutrients to support widespread growth of grasses and most of that grass is in Phelps is limited to just around the shoreline.

 

[darenative]

I just can’t grasp it. I’d think the tannins in the water block more light than what bottom feeders would do.
all I know is if my group of buddies can take a bow fishing rig at night and spend 5-7 hours on a body of water and not see ONE single carp, it tells me they’re not as thick as you think. Don’t give “too early” or it wasn’t the best time of year because we have shot fish all 12 months of the year. We have been bow fishing 25 years and that was the first time in 25 years he was shut out on not just shooting a carp, but he didn’t even see one.

There's plenty of tannin stained water in the east thats clear as gin that supports plenty of SAV. It's the amount of suspended sediment that blocks sunlight in that lake. Once the SAV is gone, wave action from wind keeps it stirred up and suspended(along with carp).
I fish the lake pretty regularly and the carp are pretty dang thick.

 

[shurshot]

I called the refuge and spoke to the manager there at Mattamuskeet. He confirmed that the plan is to remove carp from the lake beginning in 2022. He said there was over 1.5 million pounds of carp biomass currently in the lake, and that those carp are degrading water quality as I surmised above after reading earlier reports. He also said that they have recently installed gates on the lake outlet canals to prevent carp from entering the lake. He also said the bluegill were stocked to allow them to feed on carp eggs.

Seems like an awful lot of trouble to go to if there are no carp in the lake.

He also said Phelps, Pungo and New Lake are devoid of nutrients to support widespread growth of grasses and most of that grass is in Phelps is limited to just around the shoreline.

I know the Mattamuskeet manager well (Kendall Smith). He’s a no nonsense, straight shooting person/biologist that knows his stuff well. Hopefully they will get a better handle of things and get the lake healthier. One thing for sure ..... all the hundreds of impoundments that plant corn and drain each spring back into the drainage watershed are not helping the lake one bit. That’s a ton of nutrients that eventually get back into the lake which causes big problems. As stated, it’s a myriad of things that are going to take a long time to correct ....if even possible.

 

[kahunter]

I know the Mattamuskeet manager well (Kendall Smith). He’s a no nonsense, straight shooting person/biologist that knows his stuff well. Hopefully they will get a better handle of things and get the lake healthier. One thing for sure ..... all the hundreds of impoundments that plant corn and drain each spring back into the drainage watershed are not helping the lake one bit. That’s a ton of nutrients that eventually get back into the lake which causes big problems. As stated, it’s a myriad of things that are going to take a long time to correct ....if even possible.

Yeah Kendall is a good guy. He will get it straight.
Ive never really understood hot the impoundments are putting that much more nutrients into the lake than say a normal ag field would. Am I wrong? The duck poop is a source but the ducks would be on or around the lake the same as they always have been, and alot of the impoundment were ag fields prior to being built. I dont see how that would be a huge increase in pollution from say 10 to 15 years ago when there was plenty of grass. Like I said not an expert just never saw how that would be the case. Could more soound water (brackish) intrusion or say more chemicals from more cotton produced around the lake be a bigger issue maybe? The defoliant they use on cotton is nasty stuff and I know for a fact that if you get the sound water into an area with grass it will knock it right out.

 

[todobien]

It seems like some of the declines started about the same time as more cotton was being planted but that was also about the same time as more impoundments were being built. As far as nutrients from corn impoundments compared to a regular cornfield in the same location here are my thoughts which could be way off.....yes you have more duck poop but you also have the water sitting on the stubble and some unharvested grain that the ducks didn't consume you have some decomposition going on and that water is pumped directly into a ditch, many of which drain to the lake esp on the W side if i remember correctly. You also have fine material carried into the lake too. during late winter draining. There is a 2/23/06 photo on google earth where it looks like you can see plumes of darker water coming into the lake where some of the larger ditches enter the lake. One about 1/2 aroun d on the NW side of the lake is most prominent. If I'm not mistaken this would coincide with the period when people are draining their impoundments. Also increased salinity could affect what species are present but I'm not sure if there has been a change in that.

 

[Wanchese]

Question. Nearby New Lake and Phelps Lake have basically the same type of water (tannish) and avg. depth as does Skeet. I don’t think their SAV’s are depleted (still lots of ducks and swans feeding on them) and I’ve never heard of anyone complaining about it. Maybe Conman (lick guy) can shed some light but if this is true, how then do those lake keep their SAV alive? Lake of carp? Or lack of impoundments dumping their nutrient rich water back into the lake? Or ????. Complex question I know.

New Lake and Lake Phelps are worlds apart as far as SAV and water quality. Lake Phelps, you can count your toes in water up to your chin. New Lake is as stained of water as it gets.

 

[nccatfisher]

New Lake and Lake Phelps are worlds apart as far as SAV and water quality. Lake Phelps, you can count your toes in water up to your chin. New Lake is as stained of water as it gets.

That is for the ones that can see their toes. Remember there are a few in here that hasn't seen them in years in the vertical position.

 

[shurshot]

KA, todobien, Everything said in y’all’s posts above could very well be right as far as causes are concerned. I too don’t know anything about the cotton but find it ironic that things really started coming to light once that gin was built. I’ve always heard the herbicides used on them was also some bad arse stuff. As mentioned, the runoff from the drained impoundments shortly after the season ends should create a lot more and faster volume of nutrient filled water than if it had time to disperse over a longer period of time and slower drainage plane. Don’t know this as fact but if you look at just how much sand/sediment is deposited in our eastern nc rivers and surrounding areas during hurricanes then it seems nutrients from impoundments released in a quick and relative short period of time would have a similar effect. Makes me wonder if at some point in time there will be restrictions put on the pond owners on how and when they will be allowed to drain them. I watched a program last night where NRCS and some other agencies were working with a college in Michigan on how to create a wetland that mitigates the harmful release of nutrients back into the local watershed. Boy would that be expensive if pond owners were later mandated to do that!

Wanchese, didn’t realize those two lakes, as close in proximity as they are to each other, were that much different. Do they share the same watershed? What do you think is the reason for it?

 

[Wanchese]

Wanchese, didn’t realize those two lakes, as close in proximity as they are to each other, were that much different. Do they share the same watershed? What do you think is the reason for it?

No idea but Pungo and New Lake are both dark water and Lake Phelps is as clear as it gets.

 

[JONOV]

Not to be negative....................but why do the carp stir up the water so bad in this one lake. Most lakes in the US now have common carp. They do not have a lot of predators once they reach 8 or 10 pounds. Not sure I buy this theory. Seems they would cause the same issue all over the country if common carp are the problem. I would love to see some research and or data on this. Also having bowfished over much of NC and SC I can tell you if there are that many carp...............I would sure love to get in there during the fool moon one April.

I’ve seen carp wreck duck sloughs and lakes before. A reservoir near my moms place drained down to kill off rough fish. Also, swan lake, MN was drained to kill carp. Swan Lake is a lot like skeet in that it’s a very historic duck hunting lake.

 

[Roanoke]

SAV’s have decreased throughout North Eastern NC especially on the Albermarle Pamlico Peninsula. Big shoal near mouth of Alligator, Currituck Sound, Brant Island and East Lake do not have the grasses like they did 20 years ago.
Not sure the exact causes. Herbicide run off, sea water rising, etc. No grass =No Ducks. Currituck use to be loaded with SAV’s. It was one of the top bass fishing destinations for many pros up until the early 90’s. New bridge will be the nail in the coffin. Never will forget watching around 100,000 plus ducks lighting on sound near Jarvisburg.