Black panthers/cougars

Shine

Eight Pointer
Contributor
Started back around 2004 where I grew up for mountain lion. Bear was earlier than that.
I remember hunting with my dad when I was probably 7 and saw a bear the way I was looking walk through but I was confused. Asked my dad what is that guy in the black suit doing? He said what? I said a man in a black suit just walked by over there. Then heard his safety click off and he said which way? Gave it some time and sure enough bear tracks and scat were in the snow. But bear “didn’t exist” in ct even at that time. That was probably around 97’. My dad still jokes about the man in the black suit.
 

Justin

Old Mossy Horns
Shine said:
Started back around 2004 where I grew up for mountain lion. Bear was earlier than that.
I remember hunting with my dad when I was probably 7 and saw a bear the way I was looking walk through but I was confused. Asked my dad what is that guy in the black suit doing? He said what? I said a man in a black suit just walked by over there. Then heard his safety click off and he said which way? Gave it some time and sure enough bear tracks and scat were in the snow. But bear “didn’t exist” in ct even at that time. That was probably around 97’. My dad still jokes about the man in the black suit.
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Reason I ask, I worked for a guy from CT. Started in 2005. He’d been down here a while. He talked about bear and moose “back home” pretty freely like it was a widely known thing. Never mentioned it being some weird conspiracy to cover up.
 
wncdeerhunter

wncdeerhunter

Old Mossy Horns
Contributor
Shine said:
Started back around 2004 where I grew up for mountain lion. Bear was earlier than that.
I remember hunting with my dad when I was probably 7 and saw a bear the way I was looking walk through but I was confused. Asked my dad what is that guy in the black suit doing? He said what? I said a man in a black suit just walked by over there. Then heard his safety click off and he said which way? Gave it some time and sure enough bear tracks and scat were in the snow. But bear “didn’t exist” in ct even at that time. That was probably around 97’. My dad still jokes about the man in the black suit.
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“Beginning in the 1980s, the DEEP Wildlife Division had evidence of a resident black bear population. Since then, annual sighting reports have increased dramatically, indicating a rapid increase in the population. With the number of bears increasing in the state, it is important for residents to learn the facts about black bears and how to coexist with them.”

portal.ct.gov

Black Bear

Fact sheet about the black bear produced by the Connecticut DEEP Wildlife Division.
portal.ct.gov
 

Shine

Eight Pointer
Contributor
Bear by 2005 they couldn’t cover up anymore there was too many. Moose there were a decent amount being sighted by then. Now they’re all regular up there.
 

Justin

Old Mossy Horns
Shine said:
Bear by 2005 they couldn’t cover up anymore there was too many. Moose there were a decent amount being sighted by then. Now they’re all regular up there.
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He had already been out of CT for many years and into NC for almost a decade at that point. His end talking points would’ve been mid 90s and he was 40-45 at the point I knew him and a lot of his talking points were as a teen driving like an idiot and moose almost coming through his windshield. I’d wager a lot of that was early to mid 80s.
 

Justin

Old Mossy Horns
Serious question…

What is to gain by a state covering up the existence of an animal?

Keep in mind all the examples of things that the .gov uses as political pawns to gain control.

Wolves
Elk
RCW
Hellbenders
Pine snakes
Carnivorous plants
EDB rattlers
Bluefin tuna
Flounder
Cobia
Etc…


These are all talking points that essentially give various levels of government more control to receive more funding, staffing, larger foot prints, job security, etc.

What’s to gain in the denial of a rare creature?

If anything, denial creates a larger “liability”, if someone were to suggest that, since there’s the potential for a “told you so” moment, if something were to happen, and proof was out there. Denial with proof is one misstep away from negligence, should some sort of public harm occur.
 

Shine

Eight Pointer
Contributor
Justin said:
He had already been out of CT for many years and into NC for almost a decade at that point. His end talking points would’ve been mid 90s and he was 40-45 at the point I knew him and a lot of his talking points were as a teen driving like an idiot and moose almost coming through his windshield. I’d wager a lot of that was early to mid 80s.
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I never heard of them that thick when I was a kid but it was all more normal of sightings on the northern side of the state (although it’s tiny). My area I grew up didn’t start having regular sightings until probably around then.
 

Castle Oak 2

Six Pointer
I'm a bit late to the party but I'm amazed this subject keeps popping up every few years. First my bona fides: I was a wildlife biologist with NCWRC for 32 years. Worked throughout much of NC during those years and retired in 2015. During that time, I had the opportunity to investigate countless reports of cougars through personal interviews, track analysis, videos, photos and actual recovery of deceased cats. And I was not alone as many of the WRC biologists diligently responded to reports nearly each and every day. During my tenure, there was never one substantiated report of a wild cougar. I was working the Kilkenny area in the late 80's when two cougars were shot, one at a dumpster, the other just down the road from the dump. Both of these cats were pen-reared, illegally released animals with both bearing tattoos inside the upper lip. I also participated in the confiscation of at least two other cougars that were purchased from breeding facilities in the west and illegally transported to NC to be raised as pets. The two I remember were taken because the animals were constantly escaping from substandard holding facilities. Why anyone would want these things for a pet is beyond my understanding, regardless, some sightings could indeed be escaped or intentionally released pets. Hell, one of our folks investigated a "wild" monkey and found an escaped chimpanzee.

In cases where I had decent evidence (photos, videos, tracks) on which to base a conclusion, the "cougar" ended up being some other animal-fox, otter, house cat, domestic/feral dog, deer, bobcat, bear or coyote. Whenever we had a chance to compare notes on reports, all the bio's came up with the same conclusion-there are no wild cougars in NC. What we did note is that "cougar" sightings across the state mirrored the increase in numbers and distribution of, wait for it, coyotes. Understandable given the likeness of appearance to the untrained eye. Once while doing a shooting preserve inspection at a club in the east, several of the club members present mentioned their resident panther and the hopes that it would appear while I was there. Low and behold, as I was completing the paperwork, the "cougar" appeared at the end of their rifle range. I retrieved my binos from the truck and spent at least a minute observing the cat. After careful examination and conferring with the guys that were excitedly taking pictures and slapping me on the back, I handed them my binoculars. Yep, not a cat but a red fox. A vivid imagination is a dangerous thing in the scientific world.
 

Mack in N.C.

Old Mossy Horns
Castle Oak 2 said:
I'm a bit late to the party but I'm amazed this subject keeps popping up every few years. First my bona fides: I was a wildlife biologist with NCWRC for 32 years. Worked throughout much of NC during those years and retired in 2015. During that time, I had the opportunity to investigate countless reports of cougars through personal interviews, track analysis, videos, photos and actual recovery of deceased cats. And I was not alone as many of the WRC biologists diligently responded to reports nearly each and every day. During my tenure, there was never one substantiated report of a wild cougar. I was working the Kilkenny area in the late 80's when two cougars were shot, one at a dumpster, the other just down the road from the dump. Both of these cats were pen-reared, illegally released animals with both bearing tattoos inside the upper lip. I also participated in the confiscation of at least two other cougars that were purchased from breeding facilities in the west and illegally transported to NC to be raised as pets. The two I remember were taken because the animals were constantly escaping from substandard holding facilities. Why anyone would want these things for a pet is beyond my understanding, regardless, some sightings could indeed be escaped or intentionally released pets. Hell, one of our folks investigated a "wild" monkey and found an escaped chimpanzee.

In cases where I had decent evidence (photos, videos, tracks) on which to base a conclusion, the "cougar" ended up being some other animal-fox, otter, house cat, domestic/feral dog, deer, bobcat, bear or coyote. Whenever we had a chance to compare notes on reports, all the bio's came up with the same conclusion-there are no wild cougars in NC. What we did note is that "cougar" sightings across the state mirrored the increase in numbers and distribution of, wait for it, coyotes. Understandable given the likeness of appearance to the untrained eye. Once while doing a shooting preserve inspection at a club in the east, several of the club members present mentioned their resident panther and the hopes that it would appear while I was there. Low and behold, as I was completing the paperwork, the "cougar" appeared at the end of their rifle range. I retrieved my binos from the truck and spent at least a minute observing the cat. After careful examination and conferring with the guys that were excitedly taking pictures and slapping me on the back, I handed them my binoculars. Yep, not a cat but a red fox. A vivid imagination is a dangerous thing in the scientific world.
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I don't disagree with any if that but for people to say there isn't on on the east coast is very naive. 1 cat traveled over 1500 Miles and we are to assume it's the only one that has done that? Hundreds of verified cougar sighting have happened in recent years. Illinois, Missouri, Iowa etc . These are just a hop and a skip from here . Is one here? Probably not . Is one or more here on the east coast? Probably. And if not unless something dramatically changes they will be here. And of course females disperse at a slower rate but if one of these longwalkers meats up with a tattooed female then it is game on. My point is never say never. Some crusty old farts eating crow in Connecticut. https://www.nytimes.com/2023/01/12/opinion/cougars-migrating-east.html
 
Helium

Helium

Old Mossy Horns
I restrain from posting pics of the black panthers I’ve killed the last few years around Lick Creek… don’t need any extra hunting pressure OR being called a racist😂
 

Justin

Old Mossy Horns
Mack in N.C. said:
I don't disagree with any if that but for people to say there isn't on on the east coast is very naive. 1 cat traveled over 1500 Miles and we are to assume it's the only one that has done that? Hundreds of verified cougar sighting have happened in recent years. Illinois, Missouri, Iowa etc . These are just a hop and a skip from here . Is one here? Probably not . Is one or more here on the east coast? Probably. And if not unless something dramatically changes they will be here. And of course females disperse at a slower rate but if one of these longwalkers meats up with a tattooed female then it is game on. My point is never say never. Some crusty old farts eating crow in Connecticut. https://www.nytimes.com/2023/01/12/opinion/cougars-migrating-east.html
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Nobody is saying that they can’t/won’t travel, but the ones that have been known to travel didn’t exactly do so in a very incognito way. Somewhere along the way, the odds are extremely high, that a cell phone/news/doorbell cam/“nest cam”/DOT/security/trail camera, would have a clear, undeniable photo or video evidence of their travels. Nevermind the physical evidence left behind from a 100lb+ animal. If folks can pick up a track in the desert south west well enough to discern size/sex of the cat before casting hounds to it, we should be able to find tracks here where supposed sightings occur, that are unmistakable from anything else.

The CT cat was documented in MN, then WI, Michigan, then Ontario, back over into NY, and eventually into CT, via hair, blood, and trail camera photos.

Again, it’s extremely possible, especially a cat leaving FL and heading north. However, the mention/possibility of a male coming across a tattooed female is extremely low, but even if it does happen, it would be very short lived without fresh genetic diversity playing into it. That’s one of the larger downfalls of trying to save/preserve some isolated or endangered species.

On another interesting note. The thought was that lack of genetic diversity is what finally finished off the mammoths of Wrangel Island.
 
cloningerba

cloningerba

Old Mossy Horns
nccatfisher said:
Always was the new guys jobs, never actually saw them do it. But the turn over rate on new guys was astounding. :ROFLMAO:
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Ive always been curious as to how those rattlesnakes got up around lake fontana...

I have killed multiple and it blows my mind they are up there. You have to watch your footing up in them hills..
 
cloningerba

cloningerba

Old Mossy Horns
Helium said:
I restrain from posting pics of the black panthers I’ve killed the last few years around Lick Creek… don’t need any extra hunting pressure OR being called a racist😂
Click to expand...
You just had to let the cat out of the bag...

Im gonna have a man in black knocking on my front door soon...
 
nccatfisher

nccatfisher

Old Mossy Horns
Contributor
cloningerba said:
Ive always been curious as to how those rattlesnakes got up around lake fontana...

I have killed multiple and it blows my mind they are up there. You have to watch your footing up in them hills..
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Guy that owns one of the marinas there used to live down here. He was smuggling a load of them and met a woman up there and never came back. Just turned the bastids loose, married the woman and started the marina. There you have it. :ROFLMAO:
 

shaggy

Old Mossy Horns
Justin said:
Nobody is saying that they can’t/won’t travel, but the ones that have been known to travel didn’t exactly do so in a very incognito way. Somewhere along the way, the odds are extremely high, that a cell phone/news/doorbell cam/“nest cam”/DOT/security/trail camera, would have a clear, undeniable photo or video evidence of their travels. Nevermind the physical evidence left behind from a 100lb+ animal. If folks can pick up a track in the desert south west well enough to discern size/sex of the cat before casting hounds to it, we should be able to find tracks here where supposed sightings occur, that are unmistakable from anything else.

The CT cat was documented in MN, then WI, Michigan, then Ontario, back over into NY, and eventually into CT, via hair, blood, and trail camera photos.

Again, it’s extremely possible, especially a cat leaving FL and heading north. However, the mention/possibility of a male coming across a tattooed female is extremely low, but even if it does happen, it would be very short lived without fresh genetic diversity playing into it. That’s one of the larger downfalls of trying to save/preserve some isolated or endangered species.

On another interesting note. The thought was that lack of genetic diversity is what finally finished off the mammoths of Wrangel Island.
Click to expand...
All great points about leaving evidence and chances of being seen on cameras.

Then in the back of my mind having been raised in Eastern NC that if a cat traveled through brunswick, Pender, Duplin, Craven, Beaufort, Pamlico and crossed the river into Hyde that there's a ton of uninhabited land for it to use and nobody would be the wiser. All that stops as you enter southeast Virginia
 
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