Barnes Help

7mm-08

Twelve Pointer
Loaded up some TTSX-BT 140s in my 7mm-08. I’ve not used Barnes before, so a little guidance would be appreciated.
Barnes has A2700 something like 43.7-48.5 in the book. I started at 45, 46, 47, 48, 48.5
45-47 were ok. 1-1.5” 47.5 & 48 opened up a little and were showing signs of pressure at .050 off the lands. 48.5 flat blew the primer. 83A4AB70-7256-4AFA-B47A-5BB29941EA49.jpeg
 
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7mm-08

Twelve Pointer
Went back to the best groups and shot 5.gn between them. It went from 1.1 @ 45 to .70 @ 46.5, and back to about 1.25 @ 47. 00E356D8-2FB7-424A-A163-A5BB7058326E.jpeg

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7mm-08

Twelve Pointer
So do I do that again, stepping .25grn from 45-46.5, or set it back to .080 off the lands, or load up some @ 46.5 and see if I can duplicate that?
 
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45/70 hunter

Old Mossy Horns
Contributor
I was going to suggest 0.5 from 45-47. That 46.5 looks good. Maybe try different primers. Which are you using?
 

7mm-08

Twelve Pointer
I had also weighed some of the bullets before loading. There is a grain variation between them. Is that a thing?
 

Cyperry

Ten Pointer
Contributor
That’s not a lot of jump for a ttsx. They usually like more room. And yes, rarely do bullets weigh the same thing across a box. Even the expensive ones on a good scale will show some variation. If you’re not chasing speed, use the 46.5 and play with jump. Or leave it where it is and shoot a 30 round proof group. If it stays around moa for 30 rounds, I’d call it a day. 3 and 5 shot groups are fun and I like to shoot them. But rarely will rifles shoot 20 or 30 into something sub moa. Too much human error and other variables.
 

7mm-08

Twelve Pointer
That’s not a lot of jump for a ttsx. They usually like more room. And yes, rarely do bullets weigh the same thing across a box. Even the expensive ones on a good scale will show some variation. If you’re not chasing speed, use the 46.5 and play with jump. Or leave it where it is and shoot a 30 round proof group. If it stays around moa for 30 rounds, I’d call it a day. 3 and 5 shot groups are fun and I like to shoot them. But rarely will rifles shoot 20 or 30 into something sub moa. Too much human error and other variables.
I was chasing speed till the bolt started getting sticky at 47, and I blew a primer at 48.5
 

7mm-08

Twelve Pointer
Let me make a correction. 50/1000 off the lands.
Corrected in the OP
 
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MJ74

Old Mossy Horns
Didn't read all the replies but I have always read that Barnes bullets like to be loaded a little more off the lands than most others.
Maybe start with your best group then play with the seating depth.
 

bigten

Old Mossy Horns
Contributor
Look at your data sheet. It should have a recommended COL (COAL), and set your bullets to match that. That'll give your your nodes to work from with bullet spacing that can be tested from there.
I think you are setting them out too far now with it blowing primers at "within spec" data..
 

Deep River

Ten Pointer
Contributor
I shoot the 150 TTSXs in my 280AI. I had to have them WAY off the lands before I got good groups. I would work on seating depth, then go back to refine your powder charge.
 

JJWise

Twelve Pointer
I shoot 150gr TTSX’s in my 308, and I’ve got them about .100 off the lands. Very good groups and no signs of pressure with 46gr of Varget.
 

7mm-08

Twelve Pointer
Shot 3 fouling shots, then a 10 shot group. The two lower ones definitely had a different cheek weld on them. I had my head slightly higher on those two shots, if that makes a difference. The far right shot was the last shot, so I’m going with, passed the sweet spot on the fouling. I’m just making excuses now. The overall is 1.485, but the cluster of 7 shots is .83”. Occasional light extractor marks, bolt opened freely.

I also tried some set at .080 back and 47 gr. They had fouling around the primer and the fourth one blew the primer. The bolt was a little snug opening them up, so I’ll just unload the rest of them.

I jumped back to some at 46.2 @ .050 to see how they compared to the 10 shot group. That’s lighter than the 10 shot group. First shot blew the primer.

I shot a bunch of factory stuff with 4-5 shot groups hitting at 1.5-2” groups.

This is all the same brass I shot yesterday. Yesterday the 47.5-48.5 had an increasingly tight bolt. Did I ruin this brass and loosen up the primer pockets, and should just scrap it and try the 46.5 @ .050 again with fresh brass, or am I just too hot and too close? It’s not a bad group.

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Cyperry

Ten Pointer
Contributor
Shot 3 fouling shots, then a 10 shot group. The two lower ones definitely had a different cheek weld on them. I had my head slightly higher on those two shots, if that makes a difference. The far right shot was the last shot, so I’m going with, passed the sweet spot on the fouling. I’m just making excuses now. The overall is 1.485, but the cluster of 7 shots is .83”. Occasional light extractor marks, bolt opened freely.

I also tried some set at .080 back and 47 gr. They had fouling around the primer and the fourth one blew the primer. The bolt was a little snug opening them up, so I’ll just unload the rest of them.

I jumped back to some at 46.2 @ .050 to see how they compared to the 10 shot group. That’s lighter than the 10 shot group. First shot blew the primer.

I shot a bunch of factory stuff with 4-5 shot groups hitting at 1.5-2” groups.

This is all the same brass I shot yesterday. Yesterday the 47.5-48.5 had an increasingly tight bolt. Did I ruin this brass and loosen up the primer pockets, and should just scrap it and try the 46.5 @ .050 again with fresh brass, or am I just too hot and too close? It’s not a bad group.

View attachment 99831

View attachment 99832
You’re brass is gone and you may have a tight throat. Are you measuring your lands with a gauge? Or using a sharpie marked dummy round? You’ve definitely got something going on. I still think you may not be jumping them enough too. It’s not uncommon for Barnes guys to be running them from .100 to .150 off. That will only help your pressure problems.
 

7mm-08

Twelve Pointer
Copied my reply below from another forum I’m inquiring on. They had some questions about the rings on the primes.
 

7mm-08

Twelve Pointer
I don’t mean to keep dodging the pressure issue. I was clearly all over it yesterday before backing down on the powder, but I want to address the question in post (X).

If I flat out abused some brass yesterday, cleaned and resized it last night, loaded it back up this morning and shot it again, could this load be in the upper end of acceptable but the brass from yesterday isn’t holding primers? I know some of that brass already had flattened primers, soot rings, and sticky bolt opening from yesterday. I may have had a different result had I just tossed that lot rather than cleaning it.

Yesterdays primer at 48.5, I have no idea where it went.

The two today, we’re intact, and rolling around in the gun when I extracted the spent case. They just looked like the fell out. Perfect condition, just no longer in the case. I have no idea how that happened unless it stuck to the bolt when the ejector kicked the brass away from the extractor. That’s why we checked head space.

( I kinda remember when priming them last night a few times being like, “Oh, that one went in easy” and others I squeezed in. )

As for the roll around the firing pin…I get that on factory ammo of all kinds. I’ve read that the firing pin hole may be oversized, and part of the thin primer metal is squeezing between the pin and the hole.

Factory Hornady Precision Hunter shot today. Factory loads with no other signs. Norma Whitetail does it too.
1CA3EF1B-310A-4EB8-BD2E-1A1E56978A45.jpeg

I don’t want to be the guy that asks a question, then doesn’t like anyones answer. I just want to be thorough.

Thank you all for helping me sort through this, maybe I should have included more info from the start, maybe you’ll tell me I’m smoking crack, because brass is either good or it’s split. These reloads are all once fired factory, twice fired yesterday, third firing today.
 

pcbuckhunter

Old Mossy Horns
Contributor
Just my take.

I’d start backing my bullets off the lands.

I’d also swap brass. Hornady brass in my experience is soft. I’ve tried some Hornady brass in the past and have had the same issue with the primers “falling out”. Especially on twice fired brass. It only got worse with additional loadings. I even had a few factory loaded primers “fall out”.

I talked to a buddy that’s a Barnes user(I’m not) he has a Winchester Featherweight in 7mm-08 that he shoots Barnes bullets in. He’s got a 0.150 jump to the lands. He’s in the middle with his powder charge, 2.0 grns over published starting load. He says his brass is a one and done with Hornady, but can get 3x+ with Remington brass. He has the same issue with the primer pockets.
 

7mm-08

Twelve Pointer
Just my take.

I’d start backing my bullets off the lands.

I’d also swap brass. Hornady brass in my experience is soft. I’ve tried some Hornady brass in the past and have had the same issue with the primers “falling out”. Especially on twice fired brass. It only got worse with additional loadings. I even had a few factory loaded primers “fall out”.

I talked to a buddy that’s a Barnes user(I’m not) he has a Winchester Featherweight in 7mm-08 that he shoots Barnes bullets in. He’s got a 0.150 jump to the lands. He’s in the middle with his powder charge, 2.0 grns over published starting load. He says his brass is a one and done with Hornady, but can get 3x+ with Remington brass. He has the same issue with the primer pockets.
Thanks. I’m shooting Norma brass for the Barnes. That Hornady was just to show that the ring around the firing pin happens even on mild factory loads. I may just go back to bonded bullets that don’t need the speed as bad.
 

pcbuckhunter

Old Mossy Horns
Contributor
Thanks. I’m shooting Norma brass for the Barnes. That Hornady was just to show that the ring around the firing pin happens even on mild factory loads. I may just go back to bonded bullets that don’t need the speed as bad.
I gotcha.

Just a curiosity question, how many books have you checked for load data? Have you cross referenced any?
I’ve got a couple books that have minor differences in starting loads and max loads.
 

7mm-08

Twelve Pointer
None. I just took the barns data off the website. I didn’t have any of their powders listed so I ordered some A2700 since I couldn’t find any of the listed powders locally. Just like rolling the dice. I picked the fasted powder on the page and ordered it.
All I had was IMR 4350, IMR 4064 and H335 on hand.
 

pcbuckhunter

Old Mossy Horns
Contributor
None. I just took the barns data off the website. I didn’t have any of their powders listed so I ordered some A2700 since I couldn’t find any of the listed powders locally. Just like rolling the dice. I picked the fasted powder on the page and ordered it.
All I had was IMR 4350, IMR 4064 and H335 on hand.
The IMR 4350 has always shot well in my Remington Model 7 7mm-08, but I’m pushing 150 gr Nosler Ballistic Silvertips.
 

7mm-08

Twelve Pointer
Yeah. I believe that was the last powder I used to run some interlocks. I’d have to look back.
 

Cyperry

Ten Pointer
Contributor
I don’t mean to keep dodging the pressure issue. I was clearly all over it yesterday before backing down on the powder, but I want to address the question in post (X).

If I flat out abused some brass yesterday, cleaned and resized it last night, loaded it back up this morning and shot it again, could this load be in the upper end of acceptable but the brass from yesterday isn’t holding primers? I know some of that brass already had flattened primers, soot rings, and sticky bolt opening from yesterday. I may have had a different result had I just tossed that lot rather than cleaning it.

Yesterdays primer at 48.5, I have no idea where it went.

The two today, we’re intact, and rolling around in the gun when I extracted the spent case. They just looked like the fell out. Perfect condition, just no longer in the case. I have no idea how that happened unless it stuck to the bolt when the ejector kicked the brass away from the extractor. That’s why we checked head space.

( I kinda remember when priming them last night a few times being like, “Oh, that one went in easy” and others I squeezed in. )

As for the roll around the firing pin…I get that on factory ammo of all kinds. I’ve read that the firing pin hole may be oversized, and part of the thin primer metal is squeezing between the pin and the hole.

Factory Hornady Precision Hunter shot today. Factory loads with no other signs. Norma Whitetail does it too.
View attachment 99842

I don’t want to be the guy that asks a question, then doesn’t like anyones answer. I just want to be thorough.

Thank you all for helping me sort through this, maybe I should have included more info from the start, maybe you’ll tell me I’m smoking crack, because brass is either good or it’s split. These reloads are all once fired factory, twice fired yesterday, third firing today.
I think you’re working with a tight throat. Those precision hunter rounds aren’t hot and those primers are cratered. Still, I think the last two blown primers are a result of brass that’s spent. Also, backing off the lands will still help even with a tight throated chamber. Load some new brass at 46.5 with them at .150 off and see what happens.
 

bigten

Old Mossy Horns
Contributor
I think you're chasing your tail. Like I said earlier, start with known data. Then move to setting and testing seating depth. Also, I wouldn't reuse stressed cases, as that will skew results. Go back to basics and work from there. The 7mm08 is not a hard caliber to load accurate rounds for. If you keep it simple and in order.
 
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