.444 Marlin ammo

Eric Revo

Old Mossy Horns
Contributor
I scored a box of Remington .444, 240 grain up in Cana , VA for $20.00. There is a fella there that reloads for the .444 but he had a factory box of ammo that he was selling as well.
His normal price of 20 rounds of reloads is $20.00, but he only had 240 grain Hornady hollow points loaded for this batch and I much prefer the 240 grain soft point for my old 1970 Marlin .444.
I know that sometimes this caliber can be tough to find for reasonable, so I figured I'd share the wealth. He loads the 265 grain Hornady lever action bullet as well, that's a great round for that rifle and has become tough to find in a factory load.
 

Sharps40

Old Mossy Horns
Well, I can see that there article is gonna cost me powder and lead.....


In the never ending quest for a one powder bench (rifle this time) I spent much time analyzing the varous charts and articles on slower powders in straight wall cases like 444 marlin and 4570.....(44 mag loads in 444 marlin give 44 mag performance, slower than normal powders give slightly reduced rifle performance, who'da figgered!)

So, H380 is the choice. Slower to a little slower (generally) than Varget/IMR4064/BL-C2 and other powders commonly listed for the 400g/405g bullets I......

Selected a range of loads from real light to about medium for the noted slightly faster powders.

Lubed and sized a batch of 405g HBFN bullets with my favorite home brewed lube for everything made of lead.

Miked the case heads and marked each one on the inventory sheet so each shot will allow visual exam and measurement.

Loaded the ammo.

Shoved everything in the trunk for a range trip tomorrow.

Will post up my findings, including any kabooms. No Kabooms are anticipated.

Oh yeah, rifle being tested is a rather nice 1886 Miroku Winchester 45-70 lever action, scoped of course! My range of velocities with the selected loads should be from about 1100ish FPS up to about 1600ish FPS. If it works out guess I'll have to break out the chronograph for the first time in 20 years, or go buy one of them nifty magneto chronograps that strap on the barrel.
 

Sharps40

Old Mossy Horns
Well, no Kabooms. Though I was equipped with ballistic eye pro, double lenses, ear plugs and a strong rifle.

Very satisfying accuracy potential and very little unburned powder in the bore or cases, even less residue as the charge weights increased.

My results were as follows. Yours may differ, and you'll be on your own every time you deviate from published loading data from reputable sources.

My assumptions based on study, H380 is generally very slightly slower than Varget, and several other powders common to loading the 45-70. Given the article at post 4 and the writings of Ken Waters on slow powders in the 45-70, I decided to try it. All my loads used 405g HBFN bullets with a lube of equal parts beeswax, vasoline, Lee Alox Liquid and a few table spoons per jar of RCBS liquid sizing wax. Primers were standard CCI large rifle, Winchester brass, lee taper crimp and H380 powder.

All cases were miked at the head/web after sizing and again after firing. All primers were checked for visual condition after each shot.

I started nearly 5 grains under the minimum Varget load and worked my way up carefully to the middle of the Varget Load data as published by Hodgdon.
 
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Sharps40

Old Mossy Horns
I chose varget data as starting point and likely as the max load data as it seems to be the closest in burn rate in most charts to H380, usually showing slightly faster. BL-C2 is close too, but I only found one data set for it, an old Barnes manual listing a Trapdoor load with their 400ish grain original copper jacketed bullet.

Here we go....all shooting was done on the bench, 25 yards rested. After completing the session and wiping the bore for the first time, no leading was noted. I did not do any chronograph work. That could come later.

The first three rounds were very very mild of recoil but hit several inches high.....(gives me an idea how slow that slug was I fired on a deer the prior year in SC.....deer Dead Right There but I am guessing that 405g bullet was stepping out at 900 to 1000 at the muzzle! The big slugs are fine killers, even slow.) This load was 4.6g under the minimum for Varget and was 35.4g H380. Cases measured before and after show an average head expansion of .001". Accuracy was fine. Three shots landing near the top of the target. (All subsequent shots were 6 oclock on the black to allow for the higher striking point of these loads compared to last years very light hunting load)

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A second triple was fired. 40g H380. Case head expansion averaged 0". Perhaps stiff brass. Recoil slightly more but still less than a case full of black powder with this bullet. A six oclock hold on the black seemed to have a bit less accuracy potential but I was gaining confidence there'd be no Kaboom. This load of H380 matched the published starting load for Varget.

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A third triple was set up. This time 42g H380. Primers still looked good. Case head expansion averaged .0005 (in fact all three cases expanded exactly that amount at the web/head junction) Extraction remained easy peasy with cases nearly falling from the chamber. Recoil was up and the gun now felt like it was loaded with a full charge of 70g compressed goex fff powder. Still no untoward amounts of unburned powder in the bore or cases.....evidently efficiency is up at this point and accuracy improved.

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A fourth triple was sent down range. 44 grains of H380 powder. Cases miked and inspected at each firing before loading the next shot. Recoil up a bit more and the scope touched my ballistic eye pro in recoil. Seems I was crowding the scope and laying across the butt of the rifle in anticipation. Extraction remains stupid easy, primers fine and average head/web junction expansion is about .0003. Case necks are not sooted and the recoil feels like the 480g lead Schmitzer over 65g compressed goex fff. Accuracy wise, starting to eat a nice ragged hole in the target about 3.5" above the horizontal cross hairs. Still no significant quantities of unburned powder to deal with.

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Sharps40

Old Mossy Horns
A fifth triple was sent down range. 45 grains of H380 powder, middle of the road on the published Varget data set for the 405g lead bullet. Cases miked and inspected at each firing before loading the next shot. Recoil is about the same and I avoid crowding the scope for this set..... Extraction remains snot on glass slick, primers fine and average head/web junction expansion is about .0008. Now hitting close to 4" above the horizontal cross hairs. Still no significant quantities of unburned powder to deal with. Assuming a close relationship to Varget I could be close to my goal of about 1600 to 1700 fps with this hard hitting flat nose. In any event, recoil is comfortable and much less than the factory 300g jacketed hollow points. There is more testing to do, but if I were to achieve minute of deer accuracy at 100 yards (and there is no reason to suspect this load won't) I could live here comfortably with many many handloads for the remainder of my life.....there is still about 500 lbs of 20/1 lead/tin alloy out in the garage for casting!

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Here, all the primers lined up in order (medium load left and lighter loads moving to the right). All look fine as frog hairs.

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Here, primer condition from the heaviest load fired today. Nice and round, no cratering.

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Compared to the condition of the primers in todays lightest load tested......

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Todays workout.

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Your friendly neighborhood test gun and hunting buddy....the Win/Miroku 1886 4570 Extra Light.

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Sharps40

Old Mossy Horns
And then, right back out to the range and success. Great accuracy and based on where the bullet hits at 50 and 100, kissing 1700 fps with that soft 405g slug. No leading. About as much recoil as I want to deal with and less than the 300g jacketed factory loads. Killed many a deer with this bullet but only one with this gun so far. That'll change soon I think.

A triple was fired at 47 grains of H380. All systems normal and as described before. Accuracy at 25 was 3 shots real tight touching at 1 oclock in the photo below. Then a triple was fired at 48 grains of H380.....same same, and the recoil is wearing on me a bit and the accuracy was even better, 3 oclock in the ten ring of the same photo.

Another 25 yard triple was fired at 49 grains of H380......9 oclock in the photo below, best yet......all indications on the brass were normal and head/web expansion averaged only .0005". I doubt we're even close to stressing the brass or the gun.....But, my shoulder tells me when I've got enough power.....this feels like it. Recoil on the bench is not too bad but it accumulates.

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Checking the 49 grain load at 50 meters, I find it groups right on the money. On flyer high, my fault for not focusing the crosshairs. But, over all, more than minute of deer to any range I can humanely use this one (and given a 3" trajectory, that's about 125 yards for a dead on hold and 150 yards for a spine hold)

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Time to case a bunch and get em loaded.....practice for deer season. That 20/1 lead/tin turns em inside out with penetration and expansion and managed to ring the steel swingers tonight at 100 and 150 meters.

Looks like I am one rifle cartridge closer to having a single powder rifle loading bench. So far I feed H380 to 22-250, 7x57 Mauser, 30-30, 30-06. Gotta test it in .223 and .243 and if its good like everything else, I'll have to get me one million pounds!
 
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Sharps40

Old Mossy Horns
Good news is I seem to have my chronograph working again. Will have to check it with known velocity ammo but it seems consistent. (It was underwater in a house flood in 2009....seems it just needed some time to dry out and clean the lenses!)

But anyway, my 1000 fps 22 caliber pellet gun is showing a dead nuts consistent 686 to 689 fps for 6 shots over the much abused sky screens. Guess pellet guns don't run as fast as they say they will on the box. I'll bust a 22 or three over it tonight and see where its at.

Woo Hoo! Been a long time since I did any serious reloading development. Guess I'll have to check the new 4570 loads and those nifty 150g lapua's I just loaded for the Merkel.
 
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Sharps40

Old Mossy Horns
I suppose it does pay to purchase quality. In its day, 20 odd years ago, one of the most expensive of the chronographs on the market. Obsolete now and it was under 24" of water in my basement in the great Sept 2009 flood in the greater Atlanta area. But....

Dried out now....finally and I cleaned the mud out and gave it a whirl. No need to buy the fancy new magneto barrel mounted chrono just yet. This one's still got some life left in it.

Testing with the pellet gun indicated as above.....very consistent.

Testing with known ammo today, CCI CB caps yielded an average 600 odd fps over 5 shots and the old standby and ever reliable Federal lightnings yielded a wonderfully consistent 1150 to 1160 fps.

I think this old friend is ready to get back in front of the muzzle this weekend to vet out the new loads. First of the new loads in years as the stockpile of handloaded ammo has finally succumbed to a state of ready but empty brass. Once I start, I intend to work up the load and create my retirement supplies of hunting ammo for me and the family.

I suppose if I had to, I'd buy Pact again!

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Sharps40

Old Mossy Horns
In getting ready for another weekend bench session with the new 4570 loads, I just had to do something with the trigger on the 1886. It was near 8 lbs and gritty when I got it. Previous work had softened the trigger return spring and reduced that to about 5.5 lbs and gritty.

Now it feels better. Still a lot of take up like most lever action triggers but at least its finished out at just under four lbs now and much less grit. It took removing the rebound function from the hammer strut as well as polishing the sear and sear notch and finally, clipping 1 1/4 coils from the very stiff mainspring.

After last weeks bench session, I look at the targets and wonder how it shot so well with the trigger like full of gravel before.

The plan is slowly coming together. I suppose if I'm going to carry and 8+ lb extra light rifle, it best that its a repeater. My other choice would be a 10 lb single shot sharps with a set trigger but I sure like the repeat function and a better trigger is icing on the cake.
 

Sharps40

Old Mossy Horns
Updating information received from another board member with access to quikload......

"It should be going in the neighborhood of 1500 fps and around 21000 psi. But it's only burning around 70% of the powder. Today at 09:41 AM."

Goal is 1500 fps to 1700 fps at or below 25K with cleaner burn than BP or IMR/H4350/4831.

Chosen velocity will allow for expansion without shattering the nose of the bullet, low risk of leading, not too bad on the shoulder.

Accuracy goal is < 3" for 5 shots at 100m (very thin wall barrel on this EL model) and 100% hits on a 12" steel plate at 200m. (Though 1700 fps will make this 200m goal easier assuming a 125 to 150 yard zero is selected.)

So far, from initial tests its looking like we may be acheiving all the goals.

As for unburned powder, really not much accumulating in the bore, I suppose the lil balls blow out better than the big logs!

I'll get it to the range and we'll validate the velocity prediction from QuickLoad with the trusty bullet speedometer.

Thanks for the data mining!
 

Sharps40

Old Mossy Horns
The article on versatility of 444 and 4570. Don't have a 444 but can use the vastly similar 4570 to vet the article
 
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1SHOT1KILL

Old Mossy Horns
It's probably just me and I am probabwrong, but this thread seems to have almost taken a wrong turn somewhere in Albuquerque.
 

Sharps40

Old Mossy Horns
Close read of the article, not off track. Just tracking one of the related topics in the thread. Experimenting with slower powders in long straight cases like the 444 marlin and 4570. If I had a 444 I'd be doing the same work up.
 

Sharps40

Old Mossy Horns
Out at the range. Fired 61 rounds. Busted a lot of clays at 50m and 100m plus rang all the steels at 100m and 150.

I need a more stable base for my chrono. Getting some very erroneous readings due to instability. For example, a low of 245 fps and another pair high at 1988 and 2460 fps.

Most of the readings were in the low 1600s. The accuracy on target would indicate its shooting pretty good. Could be better and I'll tweak now with small powder charge changes and by trying out LRM primers in the current load and any that are tweaked.

Chrono results indicated as follows, after ejecting the obviously erroneous readings.

High: 1658 fps, Low 1608 fps, Extreme spread (H-L) 50 fps, Average Velocity 1634 fps (2402 fpe), Average deviation 18.3 fps, Standard deviation 21.9 fps.

Saw a few in the high 1500 nearing 1600 and I suspect they were true readings, here magnum primers may help close up the spread a bit but the deviations are both fairly low and I currently have a load that will deer hunt quite well even with nothing but some more practice.. Some tweaking I think and Closing on a good one.

50 yard target.

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A bit harder to read. Yesterdays holes are black marked. This is the three hundred yard sets. Group sizes are staying under 2" but I do need to take clean targets and larger dots next trip out. The 4.5x scope does not do well past 50 yards with a 3/4" diameter dot, at 100 yards the dot is completely covered by the cross hairs. From here I switched to breaking clay pidgins at 100m and ringing steel at 100 and 150m. Currently the load is just about dead on at 100m and a spine hold works nicely on a 150m steel that is 12" in diameter.

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