1937 Dodge D-5 4 Door Touring Sedan

Sharps40

Old Mossy Horns
This where I'm at. Run the wheels off and when I can't Keep it up, sell it to someone who'll do her over again.
 

Sharps40

Old Mossy Horns
Good progress on cooling today. Just a simple idle speed airflow issue...e.g. very low air flow. As such the power hog electrical fan runs quite a bit.

For the nonce, a 16 in fan with steep pitch was installed closer to the radiator and I swapped in a larger crank pulley for a factory like 18% overdrive of the pump and fan. I have another upper pully to take it to 32% but dont think it'll be needed.

The new mechanical fan actually sucks a hand towel flat against the radiator at idle. Before, the smaller one struggled to move tissue paper.

I was able to recalibrate the auxiliary electric fan to 200f on and 190f off.

Hot days are coming so we'll see how this works. I have an average 60 degree temp drop from top to bottom of the radiator now.

If all is well, I may switch over the winter to shrouded mechanical and place the radiator back into the factory position (its 4 in fwd now to allow for the electric fan). Big job, so a good winter project. The electric could be disposed of or reversed as an auxiliary pusher.

Time for a drive in heavy traffic. I think idle temps will be steadier now with much less electric fan action.

20220322_155807.jpg20220322_155824.jpg
 
Last edited:

Sharps40

Old Mossy Horns
Got real busy today and pulled out the entire electric fan assembly. The new mechanical freewheeled the electric and overall it was hell for loud.

I like the looks of the engine bay better now and have plenty of room. I left the radiator forward mounted and have good access for making up a shroud and I can probably fit a slightly larger fan too.

Raining now but riding tomorrow.
 

Sharps40

Old Mossy Horns
Nice and clean. First. (PS) shroud bracket made up and fitted. Using ABS for the shroud. Easy to form and nicely stiff.

20220324_130515.jpg
 

Sharps40

Old Mossy Horns
Fuel mileage was down 2 mpg this tank. Stopped to fill her up and as the tank topped off the ground got wet. Sending unit gasket has failed. Lady next to me asks, as I'm finishing up clearing the pump area, "is that gas leaking out?" Rocket scientist there, no doubt. (A wry smile breaks across my face as I once again commence pondering the pros and cons of eugenics).

We got home, so now to drain out 20 gallons of gold to do the fix.

FB_IMG_1648407048551.jpg
 

Sharps40

Old Mossy Horns
Regular tornado under the hood now. Tons of air flow. Even at idle a towel sticks in place, even clear at the top. Can even feel hot air out the louvers on the hood sides. I think we are ready for summer.

20220329_191050.jpg20220329_191520.jpg
 

Sharps40

Old Mossy Horns
Temps keep rising.....outside. so far, Ol Bessy now seems to idle and race around with impunity. We now have enough air and water flow that it's the thermostat setting the maximum temperature. It's staying 180/190 on its 180 stat.

The mechanic fan is quieter and more efficient in traffic than the prior electric fan. The stock water pump is now 18% overdrive like an early ac car, this has also put the 12si alternator at 2250 rpm at idle. Right where it should have been to be efficient when puttering in traffic. Blocking around and in front of the radiator was a great choice, there is a small tornado under the hood at idle now. Before, on the shrouded electric fan, I had no heat out the hood sides at all. Don't know if the exhaust wrap lowered under hood temps but the pipes are over 100 f cooler and it really cut the noise inbthe cabin.
 

Sharps40

Old Mossy Horns
Coming up on almost 2 years of driving with Ol Bessy....had a couple panic stops here recently and it highlighted a nagging issue in the back of my mind. Id previously switched to a 1" bore master (From 1 1/8' as the system lacked pressure) with my GM power disc/drum combo but no matter the adjustment they just seemed inadaquate. Not much feel at the top of the pedal, long stroke to get to function (master pin is 20 thou off the piston, etc, etc.) and those panic stops were long ones with me and 4 other legs pushing the pedal without any tire bark.

Did a bunch of reading and rearranged a few things. Naturally, checked all the shoes and pads and looked for leaks, etc,....all was well.

Went back to my youthful methods of adjusting rear brakes, tossing aside the measuring caliper and after fitting shoes to the drums, adjust them to lock and backed off till just free......that helped but still needed 5 legs for a tire quiet panic stop and still not much feel or action at the top half of the stroke.

Went through all the checks on the 7" dual diaphragm booster (thats all that'll fit in the space available), run the pressure calculations (should easily make the 900 to 1400 lbs needed for power discs), and decided to change the ratio from power brake 5 to 1 to manual brake 7 to 1. Same, it helped, but still not a factory feel to the brakes and still needed a lot of effort for what was still a longish panic stop from 45 mph.

Did a bunch more reading and came across several articles on effeciency of levers. Seems the lever ideally needs to be at 90 degrees to the master cylinder push rod at the mid point of the stroke. Mine was set up with the top of the pedal rearward from the master and the angle between lever and push rod reduced a lot on application of the brake.

So, I moved the pedal pivot forward toward the master, changed up the push rod length and I'm a bit over 90 degrees to start and push thru 90 degrees as I'm applying pressure.

Happy Joy! I can feel the brakes engaging nicely in the top third of the stroke and panic stops are one legged and a darn sight shorter than before. Even got some tire noise jumping it full panic.....still need to adjust up the right rear a bit tighter but so much more feel and brakeing power.

The original mounting point for the brake lever is the middle bolt, there was a steep angle to the much longer push rod that bacame shallower as I pressed the brake.....e.g. the brake lever was moving into a position parallel to the master push rod. Not efficient per what I was reading.

Now, the brake lever is moved toward the firewall and the angle is a bit over 90 degrees to start with and moves through 90 as I operate the brake. Best overall improvement so far to brakeing feel and performance. (Ratios on the three holes top to bottom are 7 to 1, 5.7 to 1 and 4.6 to 1 but the bottom holes require an offset push rod to keep the master pushrod straight on in the bore.)

Now only a couple more things to do.

1. Get some steel (and a buddy that can weld for me) and fab up a brake lever that hangs like this and is a bit straighter so it fits my foot and seating position within the constricted space of the pushed back fire wall.

2. Start making up door cards and arm rests so I can get the upholsterer working on it.

20220806_124603.jpg
20220806_124551.jpg
 
Last edited:

agsnchunt

Old Mossy Horns
Coming up on almost 2 years of driving with Ol Bessy....had a couple panic stops here recently and it highlighted a nagging issue in the back of my mind. Id previously switched to a 1" bore master (From 1 1/8' as the system lacked pressure) with my GM power disc/drum combo but no matter the adjustment they just seemed inadaquate. Not much feel at the top of the pedal, long stroke to get to function (master pin is 20 thou off the piston, etc, etc.) and those panic stops were long ones with me and 4 other legs pushing the pedal without any tire bark.

Did a bunch of reading and rearranged a few things. Naturally, checked all the shoes and pads and looked for leaks, etc,....all was well.

Went back to my youthful methods of adjusting rear brakes, tossing aside the measuring caliper and after fitting shoes to the drums, adjust them to lock and backed off till just free......that helped but still needed 5 legs for a tire quiet panic stop and still not much feel or action at the top half of the stroke.

Went through all the checks on the 7" dual diaphragm booster (thats all that'll fit in the space available), run the pressure calculations (should easily make the 900 to 1400 lbs needed for power discs), and decided to change the ratio from power brake 5 to 1 to manual brake 7 to 1. Same, it helped, but still not a factory feel to the brakes and still needed a lot of effort for what was still a longish panic stop from 45 mph.

Did a bunch more reading and came across several articles on effeciency of levers. Seems the lever ideally needs to be at 90 degrees to the master cylinder push rod at the mid point of the stroke. Mine was set up with the top of the pedal forward and the angle reduced on application of the brake.

So, I moved the pedal pivot back and changed up the push rod length so I'm a bit over 90 to start and push thru 90 as I'm applying pressure.

Happy Joy! I can feel the brakes engaging nicely in the top third of the stroke and panic stops are one legged and a darn sight shorter than before. Even got some tire noise jumping it full panic.....still need to adjust up the right rear a bit tighter but so much more feel and brakeing power.

The original mounting point for the brake lever is the middle bolt, there was a steep angle to the much longer push rod that bacame shallower as I pressed the brake.....e.g. the brake lever was moving into a position parallel to the master push rod. Not efficient per what I was reading.

Now, the brake lever is moved toward the firewall and the angle is a bit over 90 degrees to start with and moves through 90 as I operate the brake. Best overall improvement so far to brakeing feel and performance. (Ratios on the three holes top to bottom are 7 to 1, 5.7 to 1 and 4.6 to 1 but the bottom holes require an offset push rod to keep the master pushrod straight on in the bore.)

Now only a couple more things to do.

1. Get some steel (and a buddy that can weld for me) and fab up a brake lever that hangs like this and is a bit straighter so it fits my foot and seating position within the constricted space of the pushed back fire wall.

2. Start making up door cards and arm rests so I can get the upholsterer working on it.

Funny how after all that tinkering it came back to simple leverage. The solution is the only part that I would be qualified to even think about, it also likely would've never come to mind. I would be thinking about replacing everything, LOL
 

Sharps40

Old Mossy Horns
Yep, I was toying with tossing the big master back on and pulling out ear hairs but reading tech stuff at brake manufactures web sites paid dividends on this one.
 

bigten

Old Mossy Horns
Contributor
Coming up on almost 2 years of driving with Ol Bessy....had a couple panic stops here recently and it highlighted a nagging issue in the back of my mind. Id previously switched to a 1" bore master (From 1 1/8' as the system lacked pressure) with my GM power disc/drum combo but no matter the adjustment they just seemed inadaquate. Not much feel at the top of the pedal, long stroke to get to function (master pin is 20 thou off the piston, etc, etc.) and those panic stops were long ones with me and 4 other legs pushing the pedal without any tire bark.

Did a bunch of reading and rearranged a few things. Naturally, checked all the shoes and pads and looked for leaks, etc,....all was well.

Went back to my youthful methods of adjusting rear brakes, tossing aside the measuring caliper and after fitting shoes to the drums, adjust them to lock and backed off till just free......that helped but still needed 5 legs for a tire quiet panic stop and still not much feel or action at the top half of the stroke.

Went through all the checks on the 7" dual diaphragm booster (thats all that'll fit in the space available), run the pressure calculations (should easily make the 900 to 1400 lbs needed for power discs), and decided to change the ratio from power brake 5 to 1 to manual brake 7 to 1. Same, it helped, but still not a factory feel to the brakes and still needed a lot of effort for what was still a longish panic stop from 45 mph.

Did a bunch more reading and came across several articles on effeciency of levers. Seems the lever ideally needs to be at 90 degrees to the master cylinder push rod at the mid point of the stroke. Mine was set up with the top of the pedal rearward from the master and the angle between lever and push rod reduced a lot on application of the brake.

So, I moved the pedal pivot forward toward the master, changed up the push rod length and I'm a bit over 90 degrees to start and push thru 90 degrees as I'm applying pressure.

Happy Joy! I can feel the brakes engaging nicely in the top third of the stroke and panic stops are one legged and a darn sight shorter than before. Even got some tire noise jumping it full panic.....still need to adjust up the right rear a bit tighter but so much more feel and brakeing power.

The original mounting point for the brake lever is the middle bolt, there was a steep angle to the much longer push rod that bacame shallower as I pressed the brake.....e.g. the brake lever was moving into a position parallel to the master push rod. Not efficient per what I was reading.

Now, the brake lever is moved toward the firewall and the angle is a bit over 90 degrees to start with and moves through 90 as I operate the brake. Best overall improvement so far to brakeing feel and performance. (Ratios on the three holes top to bottom are 7 to 1, 5.7 to 1 and 4.6 to 1 but the bottom holes require an offset push rod to keep the master pushrod straight on in the bore.)

Now only a couple more things to do.

1. Get some steel (and a buddy that can weld for me) and fab up a brake lever that hangs like this and is a bit straighter so it fits my foot and seating position within the constricted space of the pushed back fire wall.

2. Start making up door cards and arm rests so I can get the upholsterer working on it.

View attachment 96604
View attachment 96602


My thoughts are: damn, how did we miss that??....

And, I did get the welder issue solved...my stupidity...
 

Sharps40

Old Mossy Horns
There was a short ton of stuff going on. Steering, motor mounts, brakes, start up, sheet metal. Heck I think ya did great!
 

Sharps40

Old Mossy Horns
So....last two days of rain spent continuing the brake work and gas pedals..

The firewall was moved back 4" to make room for the small block.....really compromised foot position, comfort, etc....combined with an enlarged trans tunnel hump, not much foot room left and everything really close to the seat. Kinda knees up when driving.

I finally vetted the gas pedal and have a set up that works. Started with a Jeep Cherokee assembly, it was ok, but high enough that my foot bent up toward my shin below 70 mph. Pulled that out and put in a hot rod spoon assembly, height and angle was perfect but the spoon sorta bores a hole in the ball of my foot after a couple hours. So, I took both apart and mated the tradition jeep pedal to the hot rod assembly and chucked the spoon down in the woods. So, thats resolved and I have a comfortable resting position for my right foot while driving. Just left to pull it out for paint, after the brakes are done.

The brake pedal that I had a huge rise through a 20 degree up angle. Back of the pedal was now 4 inches above the gas pedal.....quite a lift of the leg to get her stopped. (It would have been perfect as is, before the firewall was pushed back.) Anyway, stopped off at Tractor Supply and grabbed some 3/8" steel and carved out a straighter pedal arm with a 1" rise through 5 degrees. I set it up for 6.3 ratio. Finally! Room for my foot at both pedals. The new arm sits about 1 inch above the gas pedal and adjusting my sloppy free travel from 3/4 inch down to the called for 1/4 inch, I'm happy. The back of the pedal arm is about 2" off the firewall at full stroke.

While i was at it, I checked my booster pin to master piston relationship. I wasn't sure how much gap was in there but I knew it was too much and I recalled I had a 40 thread per inch pin.... .025 Inches linear movement per turn. Without the requsite measuring tools and not willing to wait 8 days for 2 day Amazon delivery, I extended the pin 2 full turns toward the piston, put prussian blue (blue grease) on the pin, bolted on and removed the master andd I had full contact between pin and piston. A drive and some hard stops from 25 mph revieled reduced brakeing capacity from what I had last week, if felt like front disc only.

So, back in the garage, rear drums were checked for heat, 145F on the passenger side, 110F on the drivers side after the 20 mile jog. Not bad, not dragging but not working good either.....figured it had to be the pin. Put the camera over the resevoirs and pressed record.....pumped the brake pedal engine off and engine on. Disc brake resevoir had a big swirl each stroke. Drum resevoir only swirreled on the first pump and after a 30 second wait, and those rear resevoir swirls were tiny by comparison. I musta partly blocked the rear vent with my adjustment earlier.

Popped the master off, moved the pin back into the booster about .010" and got out the prussian blue again.....no contact between pin and piston. Put the camera back on and pumped her a bunch engine off and engine on, big ol nasty swirls in both bowls!

Supper time now, so, test drive tomorrow. Hoping to continue to sneak up on perfection.
 
Last edited:

Sharps40

Old Mossy Horns
Living the Bachelor life since July as Goodwife took over full time care of her Mother pending passing,....ditched the jeep and the frontier for a new Titan Pro4x that Goodwife put nice running boards on and promptly confiscated leaving me with Ol Bessy as a daily driver.....a situation that I don't mind at all. (though I am allowed to drive the titan, I am not allowed to touch any of the buttons....heck, this thing has a heated steering wheel and goodness knows what else.)

I detailed a number of changes to brakes and cooling here and daily driving has taught me a lot.

1. Feel + Actual Performance. Often specs don't really matter beyond a suggested starting point., especially with non factory engineered setups.

For example, Cooling. I'd gone with electric puller fan, 3300 cfm, shrouded, adjustable controler, Walker Radiator, water wetter, yada yada yada. She ran 200 on a 180 thermostat, higher putting around. A bit of plugging air escapement points helped,,,,,not much. Still teetered on too hot for a Gen 1 engine and my comfort zone. Took the trans cooler forward and out from the bottom tank, no help. And during all that, I rebuild the Delco 12 SI twice as the pulling amps, pulling so often, just kept burning up the alternator.

Went to a fully shrouded mechanical fan, way more cooling, very steady temp but still climbs to 200+ putting. Added 15% overdrive on the water pump and now we are getting somewhere. 180 everywhere and it takes a long stop light to see 190....all this with the fan 5" away from the radiator.

I think the cooling task is to move the fan 2 more inches forward, trim the shroud and I should have about a good a cooling system as I'm bound to see. (If I really get jiggey over the winter, I can pull the radiator rearward to the factory location and have the fan shrouded anywhere between 1 to 3 inches clearance depending on fan spacer.)

Drive line angle, (Didn't feel right initially and sure requird lots of trial and error pinion shimming to find the lowest vibration spot...) The fit of the engine/trans placed the trans tail down 4.3 degrees....a bit steeper than usual. Right now I cant drop the front of the motor as the power steering pump is only 1/4 inch above the Rack input joint. I'll have that fixed directly.....I scavenged the bent arms of 2 garage door opener brackets and am making up a new power steering mount that positions the pump 1 in higher and 1.25ish further outward than the factory bracket. All I'll need then is a longer drive belt and I should be able to set the motor down in front up to 3/4+ inch...But, I do believe that 1/4 to 3/8 drop up front should get me in that magic 3 degree down angle ball park.....(Nope, can't raise the trans anymore, its already in contact in one spot with the floor pan.)

Brakes, Brakes, Brakes......Finally getting the right "Feel". So much work to get Chevelle/Mailbu Drums and GM Metric (Medium) calipers and chinese 7" dual booster, Some no name asian distribution block with Tiawan corvette dual master to even think about playing right together. Shoes have to be arced to drums and adjusted, replace no name asian distribution block with american (since no name blows fluid out the safety pin), changed to the wrong size master (My fault), found out the calipers were siezed, not from rust, from very wrong sized rubber bushings for the pins.....so over sized that even lubed, bushings had to be driven in and out with a rawhide mallet. All replacement bushings showed the same incorrect dimensions, so I ground and reamed new ones to a light thumb push fit dry and assembled them all with the blue synthetic brake goo. WEW and Halleaujah! Brakes work much better....sort of.

Pedal still operates in the bottom third of the stroke and the top two thirds feels like pushing on a spring. Nope, no air anywhere in the system and booster/too large master is fully functional, pin properly adjusted, yada. Stronger brakeing feel though, (and dropping back to a 1" cylinder from the current 1 1/8 will help brake power even more but......sure takes a long time to push the pedal down to the floor where all the action is.)

Feel, it counts. Free travel specifications for non factory assemblies are, well, starting points, nothing more. The booster has three distinct motion phases on the brake pedal side. 1/2" of so of linear movement of the pedal push rod, where absolutly nothing happens. About 1/16" or so of movement where air starts to rush into the front chamber and then movement of the entire internal assembly well into the booster body and thus the master. In the case of my combination, the oft recommended 1/4 inch of free travel was not nearly tight enough. So I simply started turning things tighter 1 turn at a time with driving. At two full turns the pedal came up feeling too hard and caliper temps were about 350 degrees (well within spec for calipers) after a drive...pedal free travel was under 1/8 inch. Backing off half a turn on the adjustment saw the caliper temps drop into the 200F range and the feel was super. I think I'm getting close!

Sure would like to get all this tweaking done so I can upholster it!
 
Last edited:

Sharps40

Old Mossy Horns
I think I finally summited Brake Mountain. I've had her off the road for several weeks and tweaking between hunting sits. Never really had good brakes. As indicated before, low drag calipers on a single bore master, stuck calipers, burned rear shoes, over heated rear drums, constricted foot bay with the fire wall moved closer to the seat to accomodate the V8.....list goes on, a smorsgasbord of assembly shop and owner errors. In all, she'd stop, but not well, not quickly and with little confidence.

That changed today!

I'd replaced the low drag front calipers with regular metrics, rebuilt the rear drums, shoes, backing plates, etc. Somewhat better, still very lacking overall and still a hellofa lot of pedal travel, like to the floor for every stop.....blead and bleed and blead again, no changes.

Added GM vacuum brake pump set for 24 in Hg, fiddled the booster pin in, out, sideways and finally settled on a setting that seemed to work. Better, still not good enough and regular stops saw the pedal about .5" off the floor.

Completly reworked the brake stop switch bracket to incorporate a pedal stop for fine tuning the height....no dice.

Looked at the ratio of the pedal to master piston, the Chinesium underdash pedal assembly came at 6.5 to 1 ratio. Perfect for manual brakes, terrible for the included power brake booster. It was not throwing me thru the windshield because there was insufficient room for a full stroke of the master piston.

Drilled a hole in the pedal arm to establish a 5.5 to 1 pedal ratio. Wow! moment. Less pedal stroke in the confined space, faster and firmer brakeing but we still were slower than safe to stop and the major action/modulation point of the brake pedal remained below the level of the accelerator pedal.....dangerous.

So, Drilled a hole in the pedal arm to establish a 4.5 to 1 pedal ratio and readjust the master cylinder position to keep the rod traveling straight into the booster. Divine Moment! The driveway test had Automotive angels singing, trumpets blaring, Electric Guitars wailing and a huge :donk:donk:donk:donk eating grin on my face. The vast majority of the pedal action is finally at or above the level of the accelerator, the pedal height is comfortable, pedal on boost is firm but can be modulated. The wheels locked with a leg punch to the pedal! Ol Bessy FINALLY SLID on her tires!

Now I'm going hunting again, and maybe tomorrow, a really nice test ride and some hard stops to bed in all the new pads and shoes!

Never give up!!!!!!
 
Last edited:

Sharps40

Old Mossy Horns
Ol Bessy is o-fish-alley back on the road. 50 mile round trip and she has brakes like a modern car. Should be plenty now to dog down that big v-8 when necessary.

Great feel, responsive no over heating and the action is in the first 3rd so, faster now too.

Rotors running under 300f and within 25f both sides, drums under 200f and similar spread.

I actually stopped worrying half way through the drive.
 
Top