Release Mallards... live decoys?

[shurshot]

The raising, feeding, and release of mallards in impoundments has long been a practice by many pond owners throughout our area. The goal of such is really quite simple .... to “attract” wild ducks in hopes they will start using their particular pond(s). While all of this sounds good and is perfectly legal, the issue eventually falls into a “gray area” when seasons open up and hunters shoot the very ponds where the tamies reside.

So the question is .. at what point does this situation create a violation regarding taking ducks over live decoys? I’ve heard all birds must “leave the impoundment” when a shot is fired ...as would any wild bird in order to be legal. But what I can tell you is this seldom happens and I’ve yet to hear of an instance where someone has actually been cited. I can see the subjectiveness but some situations are just plain blatant.

 

[Wanchese]

If they start writing tickets because every duck doesn't leave when a shot is fired, we'll all be screwed. I can't count the times I've had a flock come in, shot several out of it and had over half the flock land and swim around in the decoys.

I've also never seen any law that stated anything of the kind.

 

[dbohunts]

Straight from the regs,


"By the use or aid of live birds as decoys; although not limited to, it shall be a violation of this paragraph for any person to take migratory waterfowl on an area where tame or captive live ducks or geese are present unless such birds are and have been for a period of 10 consecutive days prior to such taking, confined within an enclosure which substantially reduces the audibility of their calls and totally conceals such birds from the sight of wild migratory waterfowl; "

 

[JONOV]

If they start writing tickets because every duck doesn't leave when a shot is fired, we'll all be screwed. I can't count the times I've had a flock come in, shot several out of it and had over half the flock land and swim around in the decoys.

I've also never seen any law that stated anything of the kind.

I've always known about the "no live decoys" rule and heard that on Indian Reservations, they often use them for decoys (no idea if there's any truth to that.)

Reading a collection of old duck hunting stories, they brought them out in cages, and released them with a weight, then scooped them back up when they were done.

I think if the ducks aren't tagged and can fly, then you run into the question if their really "tame" or not.

 

[Wanchese]

I'm aware of that. My post is in reference to this.................................... "I’ve heard all birds must “leave the impoundment” when a shot is fired ...as would any wild bird in order to be legal. "


I also know all about how they used live decoys back in the day. My great-grandfathers raised ducks and geese for that purpose.

 

[Wanchese]

.

 

[shurshot]

Wanchese, that reference was used in the context of the topic (release mallards). True, not all birds will immediately leave to a shot, as many of us have experienced, but generally speaking a wild mallard close enough that feels threatened will. I’m sure any warden worth his salt wanting to make a case would be looking at mallards only and attempt to ascertain by many means, including shooting when making a determination if birds are wild or tame. It’s not that difficult to determine but it’s much more difficult prove to a judge.

 

[Hydemarsh]

Interesting tread. I have observed a place back on Mattamuskeet farm that has signs posted they are a shooting preserve. Not sure but I have heard they release mallards and hunt them. These birds do not stay just on the place they are released. I have seen them in my impoundment. The ones they do not shoot stay in the area all year. This situation raises several questions: could I be cited if these released birds come to my place? Is it legal to take the wild birds that come into the impoundments of the preserve? Like corn in the sound, How will a GW know it was you that put out the Mallards?

Also, while I never hunt there, I read that an organization called the NC Waterfowl Association released mallards in Currituck.
Not sure this is true but if it is, I wonder how the GS's reconciled the live decoy/tame bird issue?

 

[JONOV]

Interesting tread. I have observed a place back on Mattamuskeet farm that has signs posted they are a shooting preserve. Not sure but I have heard they release mallards and hunt them. These birds do not stay just on the place they are released. I have seen them in my impoundment. The ones they do not shoot stay in the area all year. This situation raises several questions: could I be cited if these released birds come to my place? Is it legal to take the wild birds that come into the impoundments of the preserve? Like corn in the sound, How will a GW know it was you that put out the Mallards?

Also, while I never hunt there, I read that an organization called the NC Waterfowl Association released mallards in Currituck.
Not sure this is true but if it is, I wonder how the GS's reconciled the live decoy/tame bird issue?

I don't think those birds are tame. SHooting preserves have a whole other set of rules.

I think they would really have to be flightless for you to get in hot water.

 

[kahunter]

I have seen wild birds stay in an area when we are shooting. You cant go off of that. I believe as long as the birds arent tied down, you cant call them decoys. Most released birds may not be as wary as wild birds, but they wont stick around to just get shot. They may not leave an impoundment or pond, but that doesnt mean they wont go to the other side out of harms way and stay there till its safe. NC waterfowl stopped doing mallard releases themselves in currituck They now supply clubs and individuals birds to release. There are plenty released where we hunt and we dont kill many at all. Im not a huge fan of it but whatever its not a bad thing I guess. Habitat management, regulating hunting pressure, rest areas, etc will result in much better hunting than releasing mallards.

 

[Buxndiverdux]

The raising, feeding, and release of mallards in impoundments has long been a practice by many pond owners throughout our area. The goal of such is really quite simple .... to “attract” wild ducks in hopes they will start using their particular pond(s). While all of this sounds good and is perfectly legal, the issue eventually falls into a “gray area” when seasons open up and hunters shoot the very ponds where the tamies reside.

So the question is .. at what point does this situation create a violation regarding taking ducks over live decoys? I’ve heard all birds must “leave the impoundment” when a shot is fired ...as would any wild bird in order to be legal. But what I can tell you is this seldom happens and I’ve yet to hear of an instance where someone has actually been cited. I can see the subjectiveness but some situations are just plain blatant.

If the duck can fly normally, you don’t have anything to worry about IMO. If the ducks have clipped wings for limited flight, you have decoys.

As far as shooting preserves, they are only allowed to shoot release birds, because preserve bird areas are fed regularly. Just my personal interpretation of the regs.

 

[shurshot]

“By the use or aid of live birds as decoys; although not limited to, it shall be a violation of this paragraph for any person to take migratory waterfowl on an area where tame or captive live ducks or geese are present unless such birds are and have been for a period of 10 consecutive days prior to such taking, confined within an enclosure which substantially reduces the audibility of their calls and totally conceals such birds from the sight of wild migratory waterfowl. "

What part of this federal regulation suggests non clipped birds are a non issue? Sure, some of this reg is subjective (such as “on an area”), but it’s also very clear as to where non wild birds have to be kept, for how long before one can hunt said area, and as to the visibility and audibility of the birds. If anyone has ever been areound an impoundment with release birds, you can’t help but notice just how much racket they make ... in some cases it’s almost 24/7 ...

 

[Hydemarsh]

perhaps the Swan Creek lake incident shows all of us that the real answer to this question is how much money and influence do you have? Many impoundment owners have a lot of both. Some not so much; these are the ones that need to be careful and stay away from the tamies.

 

[Southern]

What about extended seasons for preserves and no limits? I have wild Mallards using my property after the season so If I put it in a preserve, I could easily be killing wild birds with no limit

 

[JONOV]

“By the use or aid of live birds as decoys; although not limited to, it shall be a violation of this paragraph for any person to take migratory waterfowl on an area where tame or captive live ducks or geese are present unless such birds are and have been for a period of 10 consecutive days prior to such taking, confined within an enclosure which substantially reduces the audibility of their calls and totally conceals such birds from the sight of wild migratory waterfowl. "

What part of this federal regulation suggests non clipped birds are a non issue? Sure, some of this reg is subjective (such as “on an area”), but it’s also very clear as to where non wild birds have to be kept, for how long before one can hunt said area, and as to the visibility and audibility of the birds. If anyone has ever been areound an impoundment with release birds, you can’t help but notice just how much racket they make ... in some cases it’s almost 24/7 ...

The comparison was given to Corn. But it isn't the same. Someone can dump a bunch of corn in front of my blind and call me in. If they dropped a bunch of pen raised birds, they a) may or may not be there, and b) how would the GW prove that they were pen raised? They aren't tame like dogs...Unless someone said, Yes Mr. GW, I released them from my farm and I told him they were all up in his impoundment. Really? I don't think you have anything to worry about.

If you didn't buy any ducks, and don't keep ducks, then you're really worrying about nothing.

RE the extended season and preserves without limits. You could be killing wild Mallards, BUT, you have to keep records, and if you put out 8 birds you can't shoot 9.

 

[Downeast]

Do you have to have a propagators license or a controlled shooting preserve license to raise and release mallards?

 

[Mack in N.C.]

I have seen wild birds stay in an area when we are shooting. You cant go off of that. I believe as long as the birds arent tied down, you cant call them decoys. Most released birds may not be as wary as wild birds, but they wont stick around to just get shot. They may not leave an impoundment or pond, but that doesnt mean they wont go to the other side out of harms way and stay there till its safe. NC waterfowl stopped doing mallard releases themselves in currituck They now supply clubs and individuals birds to release. There are plenty released where we hunt and we dont kill many at all. Im not a huge fan of it but whatever its not a bad thing I guess. Habitat management, regulating hunting pressure, rest areas, etc will result in much better hunting than releasing mallards.

This, the law was written for tied down birds as that is what some hunters used to do.... tames ones that can fly and are free to you could win in court every day .

 

[JONOV]

Do you have to have a propagators license or a controlled shooting preserve license to raise and release mallards?

I don't think its any different than the rules with Bobwhite Quail but I could be off on that.

 

[Gus]

We used to raise 300-400 quail per yr to train our pups and do preseason work with our dogs. We'd sell a few to the local birdhunters for 3 bucks apiece to cover some of our feed bill- flight food is very expensive for that many birds. Had the local game warden stop by for a chat one day. He looked things over, asked some questions and told me technically we needed a permit/license but he wasn't gonna mess with us as long as we weren't selling on a commercial scale and weren't shooting the birds anywhere but our land. Said he was only speaking for himself and we could have a problem with other GWs/govt types. FWIW

 

[I Hunt]

You do realize that not all wild ducks leave an impoundment when a shot is fired. It depends on the size of the impoundment. I have seen teal, wood ducks, ring necks, you name them, not leave a 100 acre impoundment when you shoot a blind on one end. In fact they land in the far end just out of reach and tend to draw birds away from you. I have had wild ducks do that in most all impoundments. Just because a bird does not fly when a shot is fired does not make it a live decoy. Now, if you are shooting a 1/2 acre impoundment, then I would agree that something was wrong with those birds.

The coastal rice fields that I get to hunt in do not have any released birds from the properties being hunted, but we regularly have wild ducks, again, teal, ring necks, wood ducks, widgeon, pintails, etc. that get on the far ends of the rice fields and just refuse to get up.

 

[JONOV]

We used to raise 300-400 quail per yr to train our pups and do preseason work with our dogs. We'd sell a few to the local birdhunters for 3 bucks apiece to cover some of our feed bill- flight food is very expensive for that many birds. Had the local game warden stop by for a chat one day. He looked things over, asked some questions and told me technically we needed a permit/license but he wasn't gonna mess with us as long as we weren't selling on a commercial scale and weren't shooting the birds anywhere but our land. Said he was only speaking for himself and we could have a problem with other GWs/govt types. FWIW

That's the impression I get from guys that raise quail to supply their own use.

 

[darkthirty]

All your release birds will have a marker of some sort. Or should. Some have bands but most will their back toenail clipped. Bird has a toenail, Wild. No toenail, released bird.

 

[Woods and water]

perhaps the Swan Creek lake incident shows all of us that the real answer to this question is how much money and influence do you have? Many impoundment owners have a lot of both. Some not so much; these are the ones that need to be careful and stay away from the tamies.

I didn't understand this response. Who had the money and influence in the multiple reported incidents that happened in swan lake last season, the accused assailant, the father and son or the other supposed victims in the case ?