Ford tractor mis-firing.

Winnie 70

Winnie 70

Ten Pointer
Got a older Ford 4000 gasoline 4 cyl. and it firing on 3 cylinders...have put in new plugs, taken carb off and cleaned out, drained gas out of tank, new coil & condensor, new wires....nothing works. Am lost as to the problem. We completely rebuilt motor couple years back and ran great, but got it out other day and this started...thought it may have been old gas but not it...need some help.
 
nchawkeye

nchawkeye

Old Mossy Horns
What about the distributor cap and rotor??

Have you identified which cylinder? It's a bit easier when you narrow it down to one?

Then find out if that cylinder is firing, and backtrack from the plug, wiring, to distributor cap....And yes, you can get new plugs and wiring that are defective...

This will also help knowing if it's not firing or actually not getting gas...When I think of a motor mis-firing, that means no fire to the plug or the plug is folded or defective...
 
45/70 hunter

45/70 hunter

Old Mossy Horns
Contributor
There is a clip on the shaft under the rotor button, if the clip is broken or missing the rotor will slip.
 

jenkinsnb

Ten Pointer
As has been stated by nchaweye, bad new parts are no longer an oddity. Make sure you don’t see a hairline crack inside the distributor cap or the terminals looking green and flaky. The rotor is probably a spring tab on top, so make sure it’s still standing proud. I don’t know how the manifold is made on that one, but have you checked for an intake leak? How long has it been sitting and can you run a compression test on the dead hole? Timing should be good if the other 3 are hitting.
 
Winnie 70

Winnie 70

Ten Pointer
jenkinsnb said:
As has been stated by nchaweye, bad new parts are no longer an oddity. Make sure you don’t see a hairline crack inside the distributor cap or the terminals looking green and flaky. The rotor is probably a spring tab on top, so make sure it’s still standing proud. I don’t know how the manifold is made on that one, but have you checked for an intake leak? How long has it been sitting and can you run a compression test on the dead hole? Timing should be good if the other 3 are hitting.
Click to expand...
jenkinsnb, appears only 2 are firing...the 2 in the middle are not firing because when wires are pulled on these two plugs motor runs the same, but if I take a wire off plug on far left or a wire of plug on far right, the motor skips real bad...almost cuts off. All new spark plugs and the same results with the old plugs in it.....the two middle cylinders are not firing, but there is fire coming out of the wires on these two plugs, got fire but two middle cylinders missing. Have not run compression test...will have to take to someone that can do that.
 
Winnie 70

Winnie 70

Ten Pointer
Does not appear to be any crack in distributor cap...spring on top of rotor standing up and rotor fits on shaft properly.
 
nchawkeye

nchawkeye

Old Mossy Horns
"There is fire coming out of the wires on these 2 plugs"...

So, those are firing...And you have tried different plugs...

This eliminates those 2 cylinders not firing...

Now, you have either a fuel problem or something else, like valves not opening, or worse, broken piston ring, scored cylinder, etc...Since you don't have fuel infection there is probably nothing wrong with fuel delivery...I'm thinking it is time to pull the head, if you can check compression before, great if not, it's time for exploratory surgery... :)
 

jenkinsnb

Ten Pointer
Check your local autozone for a loaner compression tester. You just unscrew the spark plug and screw the tester gauge in its place. Real easy test to run. It’s beginning to sound a bit like stuck valves or broken rings...
 
bigten

bigten

Old Mossy Horns
Contributor
Agree with the above statements.
Let me add, run engine and spray around the center of the intake with a penetrating fluid. Any vacuum leak will suck it in and smooth out the idle, IF that is an issue. No's 2 and three are beside each other in the firing order on that and it doesn't take much of a crack or carbon tracking in the cap to cause this issue. Next would be a compression test that is a simple operation. If those cylinders are low, I would dig into it for a possible blown head gasket or more severe problems, such as burnt valves (could actually have one or two stuck from sitting, which is not a real hard fix if no damage has occured).
 
Winnie 70

Winnie 70

Ten Pointer
bigten said:
Agree with the above statements.
Let me add, run engine and spray around the center of the intake with a penetrating fluid. Any vacuum leak will suck it in and smooth out the idle, IF that is an issue. No's 2 and three are beside each other in the firing order on that and it doesn't take much of a crack or carbon tracking in the cap to cause this issue. Next would be a compression test that is a simple operation. If those cylinders are low, I would dig into it for a possible blown head gasket or more severe problems, such as burnt valves (could actually have one or two stuck from sitting, which is not a real hard fix if no damage has occured).
Click to expand...
Bigten, borrowed a compression test gauge from a friend and the 2 cylinders that were not firing...they had no compression at all. The other 2 cylinders had 118 pressure reading. Will pull valve cover tomorrow and see if the valves on these 2 cylinders are stuck from sitting for a long time.
 

NC 270

Eight Pointer
I would suspect that there are 2 intake valves stuck open. A gentle tap with a hammer will usually let them go back in position, if you get them loose it might be a good idea to mix little Marvel Mystery Oil in the gas for the next couple of tank fill ups.
 
Winnie 70

Winnie 70

Ten Pointer
NC 270, the mechanic that loaned me the compression gauge told me to spray the valves with a penetration oil like Kroil or WD40 and let it sit overnite, tap gently on it next day and it should free it up. Will also take your advice with the Marvel Mystery oil....thanks.
 
bigten

bigten

Old Mossy Horns
Contributor
Winnie 70 said:
Bigten, borrowed a compression test gauge from a friend and the 2 cylinders that were not firing...they had no compression at all. The other 2 cylinders had 118 pressure reading. Will pull valve cover tomorrow and see if the valves on these 2 cylinders are stuck from sitting for a long time.
Click to expand...

My suspect would be stuck valves. Lube them and tap lightly to get them working full stroke.(those springs are not real stout to pull a stuck valve stem) Run it lightly for 15 to 30 minutes before putting a load on it. If valves not stuck, you will probably find a blown head gasket, but let's hope it's valves, as that is a simple fix. Hope you get it right soon, and I'll be glad to pass along any knowledge I have to help you out.
 
Winnie 70

Winnie 70

Ten Pointer
pattersonj11 said:
Aside from that.....how do you like the 4000?
Click to expand...
Been my daddy's for many years and when he died we completely rebuilt the motor and she strong as a bull. Compression test on firing 2 cyls. good, so we will see how goes tomorrow.. Good it just stuck valves.
 
Winnie 70

Winnie 70

Ten Pointer
Seems like 2 push rods bent...have to pull hood and gas tank off to get the 2 rods out, replace, and free up stuck valves if that is the problem.
 
bigten

bigten

Old Mossy Horns
Contributor
Winnie 70 said:
Seems like 2 push rods bent...have to pull hood and gas tank off to get the 2 rods out, replace, and free up stuck valves if that is the problem.
Click to expand...

That shouldn't be too bad. When you get the space opened up, spray the valve stems generously with a good penetrate and let soak in a bit. Tap valve stems with a brass hammer (or brass drift hit with steel hammer) to jog the valve. Once they move, make sure that pop back shut, then all should be ok. Not sure how much trouble you'll have finding replacement push rods...
 
Winnie 70

Winnie 70

Ten Pointer
Thanks bigten, have a local NAPA store that might can help with the push rods...they had the condenser, coil, thermostat...hope they can order the push rods if not in stock.
 
bigten

bigten

Old Mossy Horns
Contributor
Winnie 70 said:
Thanks bigten, have a local NAPA store that might can help with the push rods...they had the condenser, coil, thermostat...hope they can order the push rods if not in stock.
Click to expand...

If not, that may be a dealer item that even they may have to order.
 
nccatfisher

nccatfisher

Old Mossy Horns
Contributor
bigten said:
If not, that may be a dealer item that even they may have to order.
Click to expand...
They used those engines on a zillion things, air compressors etc. I am pretty sure he will be able to get them through NAPA especially if it is one that has a machine shop. Surely they have been through it before. What worries me is they were stuck bad enough to bend.
 
lasttombstone

lasttombstone

Kinder, Gentler LTS
Is this the right part?

Push Rod - For tractor models 2000, 3000, 4000, 5000, 7000. All for 3 or 4 cylinder Diesel from 8/1965 to 1975. Push Rod is 12.17 inches long. (Part No: C5NE6567B)

If you can't find it locally, I"ve used these guys before for parts.

Ford 4000 Parts - Engine Parts

Ford 4000 Engine Parts for sale at discount prices. Same-day shipping and easy returns. Compare our prices! We have the right parts for your old tractor.
www.yesterdaystractors.com
 
45/70 hunter

45/70 hunter

Old Mossy Horns
Contributor
His being a 4 cyl 4000 would be 1962-1964. In 1965 it was a completely different designed tractor and a 3 cyl. The 1958-1961 801 series should be the same tho.
 
nccatfisher

nccatfisher

Old Mossy Horns
Contributor
lasttombstone said:
Is this the right part?

Push Rod - For tractor models 2000, 3000, 4000, 5000, 7000. All for 3 or 4 cylinder Diesel from 8/1965 to 1975. Push Rod is 12.17 inches long. (Part No: C5NE6567B)

If you can't find it locally, I"ve used these guys before for parts.

Ford 4000 Parts - Engine Parts

Ford 4000 Engine Parts for sale at discount prices. Same-day shipping and easy returns. Compare our prices! We have the right parts for your old tractor.
www.yesterdaystractors.com
Click to expand...
I would bet gas and diesel would be different.
 
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