Flounder Reg Changes

cheapdate

Eight Pointer
Oh no, we agree on some things but it's never gonna be enough for you until every rec in the state can go limit out every single time he hooks up his boat. YOU made it comms vs recs by excluding other possible influences. YOU wanted to limit the discussion. And when you do that, what's left? Recs and Comms. Well let's do it!

You're research oriented, how about researching how many regs have come down in the past ten years on each side, none of which, if I listen to you, have made one bit of difference or else we wouldn't be having this discussion. When was the last time a rec was forced to have an "observer" on HIS vessel to monitor HIS catch? It's getting like gun control, "just pass one more law and that will make it wonderful and safe for everyone and unicorns will return, yippee!" Horse hockey.

Wasn't that many years ago they wanted all trawls, long or short, narrow or wide, out of the creeks. They got it. Now you want them out of the sounds and rivers. Then we'll ban gillnetting. What's next, a "rec only" month every year? Only people from west of I-95 can fish?

And please, don't come at me with "it should be fair for everyone", that's laughable and not at all what you after. Never has been.

Listen up. These waters don't give a rat's behind about how far you drove or how much you paid for your boat and they don't pass out trophies at the dock for coming in last OR first. Only one thing matters: Either you can catch fish or you can't. That applies to recs and comms alike and it's always been that way. And that's about as fair as it gets on the water....
Why on earth would you defend inside shrimp trawling (unless you are a shrimp trawler), when it's those boats that are putting local mom and pop comms out of business? There is a boat working our sounds right now that is from Texas! There is another one from Georgia! Why are they here? Because they can't trawl inside in their home states anymore. I have no sympathy for anyone who would defend to the last a type of commercial fishing that is putting their own ability to commercial fish out of business.
 

JohnBoat

Banned
now I am confused.
if you and other people are catching fish within your abilities, what are you complaining about?
I thought there weren't any fish, the fishery was in bad shape?

So let's go over the amount of inshore species I'm allowed to catch and keep.

Striper:0
Flounder: 4 (fishery is about to be closed for a while)
Speckled trout: 4 (season is closed until June whenever we have a cold winter)
Drum: 1
Grey trout: 1
Spot: not worth the effort anymore
Croaker: not worth the effort anymore

Just because I or anyone else can catch fish does not mean the fish populations are doing good. Go look at other states and their creel limits. NC has some of lowest across the board. Is it being a greedy rec that I'd like to be able to keep 1 striper? More than one grey trout? How about more than 4 trout? Is that crazy of me?
 

JohnBoat

Banned
Virginia's speckled trout limit: 5 per day.
SC speckled trout limit: 10 per day
Georgia speckled trout limit: 15 per day
Florida speckled trout limit: 4-6 depending on what zone your in.

See what I'm saying?
 

darenative

Twelve Pointer
So let's go over the amount of inshore species I'm allowed to catch and keep.

Striper:0
Flounder: 4 (fishery is about to be closed for a while)
Speckled trout: 4 (season is closed until June whenever we have a cold winter)
Drum: 1
Grey trout: 1
Spot: not worth the effort anymore
Croaker: not worth the effort anymore

Just because I or anyone else can catch fish does not mean the fish populations are doing good. Go look at other states and their creel limits. NC has some of lowest across the board. Is it being a greedy rec that I'd like to be able to keep 1 striper? More than one grey trout? How about more than 4 trout? Is that crazy of me?
Not crazy at all. But...it's a slippery slope when you look into who was an advocate for most of those low creel limits.
 

Roanoke

Eight Pointer
You want to protect small fish then let us start shooting cormorants. There were thousands around Harker's Island this winter. You should see the tens of thousands of trout that they throw up on bird island before they fly. This happens most every day during the winter.

There needs to be more accountability for every landowner in the State. You can only put out a certain amount of nitrogen and other chemicals whether your own one or ten thousand acres.

Time for everyone to stop pointing fingers and implement the proper solutions on fact based science.
 
Last edited:

Longrifle

Old Mossy Horns
Contributor
Why on earth would you defend inside shrimp trawling (unless you are a shrimp trawler), when it's those boats that are putting local mom and pop comms out of business? There is a boat working our sounds right now that is from Texas! There is another one from Georgia! Why are they here? Because they can't trawl inside in their home states anymore. I have no sympathy for anyone who would defend to the last a type of commercial fishing that is putting their own ability to commercial fish out of business.
Lol....with all due respect....you might wanna go back aways and re-read before you go chastising me or this won't go well. I am NOT a supporter of the big steel hulls, never have been, and don't know how many times I have to say it...but they have a right to work too. Where is up for debate. I WAS one of those mom and pop comms, grew up in a fishing town here on the coast, and spent all of my childhood and teenage years working on and being fed by a 30' juniper, Harker's Island built mom and pop shrimp boat. I will always defend them. I've watched the little guy get regulated slam out of existence and why? Because he was the most visible, the easiest target, and had the least amount of resources to stop them. I don't not know a single family in this county that makes a living from a small fishing boat these days. None. Use to be close to 75%.

The steel hulls weren't here when I left for the military after high school. Would have been hard to find a trawler over 35-40'. You wanna know why those steel hulls are here now? They're the only ones who can make a living at it anymore! They're the only ones with pockets deep enough to fight some of these ridiculous regs!!

My argument is this: If you focus on regulating one factor when there so many more involved you're wasting your time. Just doing SOMETHING, ANYTHING to make yourself feel like you're doing something is nothing short of mental masturbation.

I would rather see incremental regulations on anything and everything found to be significantly affecting the resource than a feel-good slap-in-the-face reg on one group. We've seen too much of that. Bycatch reduction and inside trawling by big corporate trawlers is one but it damn sure ain't the only one. As I've said before, there are creeks my grandkids can't swim in around here. Until we start looking at a bigger picture we're not gonna see these big beautiful results people are promising. And even then, trout and flounder aren't gonna start jumping in your boat, you're still gonna have to be smarter than they are. I figured most people knew that by now. Apparently not.
 

JohnBoat

Banned
My argument is this: If you focus on regulating one factor when there so many more involved you're wasting your time. Just doing SOMETHING, ANYTHING to make yourself feel like you're doing something is nothing short of mental masturbation.

If you focus on fixing one factor than you fixed one factor. It's not an all or nothing solution. Addressing one now also doesn't mean the rest will never be fixed. Again, it's not all or nothing RIGHT NOW. It's not a waste of time at all.
 

JohnBoat

Banned
You want to protect small fish then let us start shooting cormorants. There were thousands around Harker's Island this winter. You should see the tens of thousands of trout that they throw up on bird island before they fly. This happens most every day during the winter.

There needs to be more accountability for every landowner in the State. You can only put out a certain amount of nitrogen and other chemicals weather your own one or ten thousand acres.

Time for everyone to stop pointing fingers and implement the proper solutions on fact based science.

I'm all for what you said about the landowners. My only problem is you seem to think that nothing should by done about inshore trawling and all the waste it causes. Am I mistaken?
 

Longrifle

Old Mossy Horns
Contributor
If you focus on fixing one factor than you fixed one factor. It's not an all or nothing solution. Addressing one now also doesn't mean the rest will never be fixed. Again, it's not all or nothing RIGHT NOW. It's not a waste of time at all.
That's Bullspit! They've been "focusing on one thing at a time" and passing out new regs like candy as long as I've been alive. Either they're lying about the current state of the habitat or everything they've addressed "one thing at a time" for the past 60+ years has failed. Guess which one I'm going with...
 

JohnBoat

Banned
That's Bullspit! They've been "focusing on one thing at a time" and passing out new regs like candy as long as I've been alive. Either they're lying about the current state of the habitat or everything they've addressed "one thing at a time" for the past 60+ years has failed. Guess which one I'm going with...

Guess we just disagree then.
 

oldest school

Old Mossy Horns
So let's go over the amount of inshore species I'm allowed to catch and keep.

Striper:0
Flounder: 4 (fishery is about to be closed for a while)
Speckled trout: 4 (season is closed until June whenever we have a cold winter)
Drum: 1
Grey trout: 1
Spot: not worth the effort anymore
Croaker: not worth the effort anymore

Just because I or anyone else can catch fish does not mean the fish populations are doing good. Go look at other states and their creel limits. NC has some of lowest across the board. Is it being a greedy rec that I'd like to be able to keep 1 striper? More than one grey trout? How about more than 4 trout? Is that crazy of me?
well yeah it's crazy if you are truly concerned about the state of the "fishery" You should be proud NC has more restrictive limits on recs.
Do your part in conserving what does exist. quit wanting everyone else to kill less so you can kill more.
Or fish those other states.
 

sky hawk

Old Mossy Horns
Contributor
Those are limits put in place by our fishery managers.

I believe the concern is, if fishery managers in our state believe this is all the pressure that our fisheries can sustain, but the states around us can support a creel limit of several times ours, what are we doing wrong with our fisheries?

If Jordan had a limit on X species of 2 fish, 16" min, and Falls had a limit of 10 fish, 12" min., one might ask, what is wrong with Jordan that it can't sustain more harvest than that? It could be something natural like forage or habitat, or it could be from intense harvest pressure. In this case, NC has better inshore habitat than any state in the SE.
 

JohnBoat

Banned
well yeah it's crazy if you are truly concerned about the state of the "fishery" You should be proud NC has more restrictive limits on recs.
Do your part in conserving what does exist. quit wanting everyone else to kill less so you can kill more.
Or fish those other states.

Please tell me your joking.
 

oldest school

Old Mossy Horns
Please tell me your joking.
well no john boat I am not.
your circular argument that the fishery is off is not compatiable with wanting to kill more fish.
which is it?
Fishery sucks - then don't kill any.
Fishery fine- then have at it. but quit worrying about the comms.
 

cheapdate

Eight Pointer
well no john boat I am not.
your circular argument that the fishery is off is not compatiable with wanting to kill more fish.
which is it?
Fishery sucks - then don't kill any.
Fishery fine- then have at it. but quit worrying about the comms.
The mom and pop comms are putting themselves out of business by not opposing the wanton destruction by the multi million dollar comms. Anytime legislation comes up that would threaten inshore trawling Jerry Schill can muster a group of local comms to oppose it, even though it's to the detriment of that same group of local comms. Do you think the owners of those steel-hulled vessels from S. Carolina, Georgia, and Texas are attending DMF meetings? Buying into the rec vs. the comms baloney is being played for a fool.
 

oldest school

Old Mossy Horns
The mom and pop comms are putting themselves out of business by not opposing the wanton destruction by the multi million dollar comms. Anytime legislation comes up that would threaten inshore trawling Jerry Schill can muster a group of local comms to oppose it, even though it's to the detriment of that same group of local comms. Do you think the owners of those steel-hulled vessels from S. Carolina, Georgia, and Texas are attending DMF meetings? Buying into the rec vs. the comms baloney is being played for a fool.
maybe the CCA can add another C to their logo and say they represent the NC comms too?
 

Longrifle

Old Mossy Horns
Contributor
The mom and pop comms are putting themselves out of business by not opposing the wanton destruction by the multi million dollar comms. Anytime legislation comes up that would threaten inshore trawling Jerry Schill can muster a group of local comms to oppose it, even though it's to the detriment of that same group of local comms. Do you think the owners of those steel-hulled vessels from S. Carolina, Georgia, and Texas are attending DMF meetings? Buying into the rec vs. the comms baloney is being played for a fool.
The little comm has NEVER had the resources to wage war with Raleigh, what part of that evades you folks? It was true when I was a kid, it still holds true today. And when a little guy struggling to feed his family does complain exactly who do you think listens?

In my area in the 60's, 70's, even 80's there was any one of a dozen fish houses where a small family fisherman could sell his catch. They established the prices for your catch and your options were to "take it or go somewhere else". There are exactly two of those large wholesalers left and mainly because they grew up in the business. They own a few scallop boats they send north every season but neither of them maintains more than a small handful of shrimp boats for local use. Both of them saw the writing on the wall and invested heavily in real estate and other concerns. When it came to that point where there became no "somewhere else" to go, the small boats were all sold and people left the county for work. That's the main reason I left here after coming home from the Navy.

In Pamlico County right now I can count the guys still trying to make a living on one hand and have fingers left over and they're crabpotters. The little local guy has been gone for years. They're not your problem.
 

woodmoose

Administrator
Staff member
Contributor
happens in every field of human endeavor there @longrifle,,,,as the world progresses large organizations take over from the small ones,,,,happened to farmers,,took over by corporate farms.,,,happened to shop owners took over by Walmart, etc,,happened to the local cafe ,,,took over by fast food joints, MacDs etc),,,,happened to the small waterman,,took over by corporate fleets,,,,

just the nature of the human beast when it comes to business,,
 

Longrifle

Old Mossy Horns
Contributor
I know buddy. I am actually glad to be on the downhill side of this journey, don't think I could avoid jail if I had another 20-30 to go. I just hate it for my kids and grandkids. Neuse River was an absolutely outstanding place to grow up on....
 

woodmoose

Administrator
Staff member
Contributor
yeah,,,I was just "waxing nostalgic",,,,,after I posted I said "he knows that",,,,,,,

it is sad what man can do when he really tries!
 

oldest school

Old Mossy Horns
Lol, well, that being said...I CAN still catch fish so I'm going to leave this thread to those who apparently are having a hard time at it....
I know buddy. I am actually glad to be on the downhill side of this journey, don't think I could avoid jail if I had another 20-30 to go. I just hate it for my kids and grandkids. Neuse River was an absolutely outstanding place to grow up on....
with your knowledge of that area, in your opinion what happened to the tarpon deal? water quality?
 

Longrifle

Old Mossy Horns
Contributor
with your knowledge of that area, in your opinion what happened to the tarpon deal? water quality?
I couldn't tell ya buddy, for my entire life growing up here I never ever saw a tarpon in Neuse River and we fished the Sound for old drum regularly. It was not until I came back for good ten years ago and saw some guide services fishing for them that I found out they were even being caught in the River.
 

JohnBoat

Banned
Lol, well, that being said...I CAN still catch fish so I'm going to leave this thread to those who apparently are having a hard time at it....

Better get to it. Come fall you can only keep 6 fish between the 5 species you might encounter in the neuse area. What an awesome fishery we have ?.
 
Top