NC Landowners Alliance - anti-dog hunting group

[Southern]

Here are the facts for both sides. Nobody wants to come together on this. Dogs do impact private landowners. No, it is not fair to outlaw it if you do not impact other landowners. Nobody wants to do anything but represent their own interest. So what happens? Their are more landowners who are against it than their are dog hunters. There is more money in the anti group than the pro group. I see the hand writing on the wall.

 

[Tipmoose]

The funny thing about these same folks that want dog hunters to have a 500 or even 1000 acre tracts of land to turn dogs on in turn don't think one thing about archery hunting on one or two acres though. Have you ever noticed that?

As long as the arrow doesn't leave the property they can spine shoot the deer all day long. lol

 

[CRC]

I think NC will ultimately end up with a minimum acreage requirement, just like was imposed on Georgia hunters.

 

[Tipmoose]

Here are the facts for both sides. Nobody wants to come together on this. Dogs do impact private landowners. No, it is not fair to outlaw it if you do not impact other landowners. Nobody wants to do anything but represent their own interest. So what happens? Their are more landowners who are against it than their are dog hunters. There is more money in the anti group than the pro group. I see the hand writing on the wall.

This really is the bottom line. Money talks and BS walks. Up until now the money has been in the pockets of those who want things to remain the way they were back when NC was a red state and sparsely populated. Those pockets are increasingly being laid to rest and being replaced by those who do not share an appreciation for the old ways. Couple this with an enormous rise of people from out of state, including hunters who have never hunted with dogs and its pretty easy to see how this is going to go.

Its my opinion that doggers need to figure out what kind of reservation they want to live on and work to make that the best reservation they can get. Otherwise, they won't have a reservation at all.

 

[nccatfisher]

As long as the arrow doesn't leave the property they can spine shoot the deer all day long. lol

True, and that is like those knuckleheads turning a pack of walkers loose in Caswell county. Occasionally it works and they stay on that 20 acres but more times than not it doesn't. And they say oooops. Now those are the guys that I have absolutely no use for.

As a side note, our club does not allow running walkers they are just too fast, cover just too much ground for our size club.

 

[Tipmoose]

True, and that is like those knuckleheads turning a pack of walkers loose in Caswell county. Occasionally it works and they stay on that 20 acres but more times than not it doesn't. And they say oooops. Now those are the guys that I have absolutely no use for.

As a side note, our club does not allow running walkers they are just too fast, cover just too much ground for our size club.

Its a shame that you have gone out of your way to do this style of hunting the right way and you will still be penalized and lumped in with the Caswell crazies. It really is.

 

[nccatfisher]

Its a shame that you have gone out of your way to do this style of hunting the right way and you will still be penalized and lumped in with the Caswell crazies. It really is.

That is life in general, just like everything else. Half of the knee jerk laws we have to adhere to today as a society are the result of a few but all have to suffer them.

 

[ncdeerhunterRC]

I think NC will ultimately end up with a minimum acreage requirement, just like was imposed on Georgia hunters.

Several of the timber companies are now imposing minimum acreage requirements in the leases.

 

[ncdeerhunterRC]

Here are the facts for both sides. Nobody wants to come together on this. Dogs do impact private landowners. No, it is not fair to outlaw it if you do not impact other landowners. Nobody wants to do anything but represent their own interest. So what happens? Their are more landowners who are against it than their are dog hunters. There is more money in the anti group than the pro group. I see the hand writing on the wall.

I agree. Back in 2010-2011, the County Commissioners for the county our hunt club is in tried to backdoor a ban of hunting deer with dogs. Of course, it caused a huge uproar and we filled the county courthouse. Because it was so controversial, no state legislator wanted to touch it. The result was a committee of landowners and dog hunters being formed which I was a member of. The first meeting we have a rep from the NCWRC was there as a mediator. The problem was the NCWRC had already been working with the landowners on the plan and it was presented to us as the plan, agree with it or else. The plan was a mechanism to regulate it out of existence. It was supposed to be a working group to develop a plan together but the landowners didn't have the same vision of the intent of the group. The hope was to get a smaller group of dog hunters to agree to something through coercion. Of course we said no. The result was the Landowner's Protection Act. A perfect example of why both parties will never get together with give and take on both sides. Again, I wish I had the solution. All I can do as the leader of our club is make sure it is done the right way, and that we don't interfere with other landowners and if anyone in our club does, they are gone.

 

[DRS]

Here are the facts for both sides. Nobody wants to come together on this. Dogs do impact private landowners. No, it is not fair to outlaw it if you do not impact other landowners. Nobody wants to do anything but represent their own interest. So what happens? Their are more landowners who are against it than their are dog hunters. There is more money in the anti group than the pro group. I see the hand writing on the wall.

Dog hunters did step up. They wanted a Board of Deer Dog Hunters to oversee a permit system. Basically were told no, won't happen. Would have worked and rogue clubs would have been gone. Concerned dog hunters would have done right to protect our way of hunting, knowing that if they where biased worse thing would come. Why not have the NCWRC oversee a permit system? Dog hunters don't trust them. No dog hunters on the commission and the situation that ncdeerhunterRC mentioned didn't help, I was lied to, came from a commissioner, during this same time period about what was going on with the meetings. Frankly, the NCWRC seems to be anti-dog hunting from their actions.

 

[Southern]

That is life in general, just like everything else. Half of the knee jerk laws we have to adhere to today as a society are the result of a few but all have to suffer them.

The problem is everybody keeps saying that the "good" dog hunters are the majority, yet everybody I talk to who owns land in dog areas reports problems on a regular basis. The "good" dog hunters may be in more of a minority than you guys want to realize.

 

[Southern]

Dog hunters did step up. They wanted a Board of Deer Dog Hunters to oversee a permit system. Basically were told no, won't happen. Would have worked and rogue clubs would have been gone. Concerned dog hunters would have done right to protect our way of hunting, knowing that if they where biased worse thing would come. Why not have the NCWRC oversee a permit system? Dog hunters don't trust them. No dog hunters on the commission and the situation that ncdeerhunterRC mentioned didn't help, I was lied to, came from a commissioner, during this same time period about what was going on with the meetings. Frankly, the NCWRC seems to be anti-dog hunting from their actions.

NCWRC is corrupt as hell in all regards in my humble opinion

 

[ncdeerhunterRC]

The problem is everybody keeps saying that the "good" dog hunters are the majority, yet everybody I talk to who owns land in dog areas reports problems on a regular basis. The "good" dog hunters may be in more of a minority than you guys want to realize.

It may be the case but I think some of it is the eye test. Kind of follows the principle that no one gives accolades for doing things right but you'll hear about it if it is wrong. In our area, most all of the clubs do things the correct way. Doesn't mean there is not an occasional issue but it is not common. We've run into an unreasonable landowner a time or two who wants to play extremist over a minor situation. That's what everyone sees. In fact, we have one landowner who has verbally threatened/cussed in public and the issue had nothing to do with us & we were not involved. If you are having problems every Saturday, that's a different story. I just don't see that in our area and I stay in tune/touch with our adjacent landowners.

 

[shotgunner]

If the governing agency is corrupt how do you ever expect to have a reasonable solution. With some of the regs they pass I really wonder what their ultimate goal is. How long until the hunting, fishing, trapping communities come together and demand that the people (commissioners) that are representing our sports are SELECTED (voted) by us. As long as they are appointed I am afraid our commission is going to flounder at best. And so will our sports.

 

[DRS]

The problem is everybody keeps saying that the "good" dog hunters are the majority, yet everybody I talk to who owns land in dog areas reports problems on a regular basis. The "good" dog hunters may be in more of a minority than you guys want to realize.

All depends on how you define "good" and "problems". Many dog hunters do better at controlling their dogs with GPS and training collars. However, it is not fool proof. Problems, trespass or dog trespass, one dog or 100. Also most people I have seen and dealt with over the years exaggerate the issues at hand. I have hunted with still hunting clubs, where people hated dogs. They all knew I had and hunted with hounds. I still heard things that made me SMH and some that made me pure cringe! One thing I always heard was they turned out on our land again. I would tell them ain't no way any sane houndsman would turn their dog out on 1000's of acres they had no access to, little long with only 2 or 3 hounds. I heard some running a time or two, but never saw a hound over several years of hunting there. A large dog club bordered the property. Many think if they see a truck on the road they are trying to kill a deer, nothing further from the truth most of the time. I still hunt on cattle farms that also have goats and sheep, never seen hunting dogs cause a problem there either. Yes, they are poachers in deer hunting with dogs, just like poachers using other methods.

 

[JDHowell]

Heres the "rest of the story" Southern. The one you fail to share. There were some concerns in Warren County last year and your crowd tried to influence the county commissioners based on half truths and fear. We turned out in force more than once and proved those baseless claims were ALL FALSE. The Sheriff, area sergeant from NCWRC and county attorney were all there and further proved these claims were false as well. What did happen were the dog clubs in Warren come together and formed an association complete with a code of ethics and mission statements to protect BOTH the legal houndsman AND landowners in Warren County. Several meetings were held during our season at the request of the landowners and things got worked out. One of your loudest advocates has even gone on record and stated it was the most enjoyable hunting season as a non hunter EVER. This is what happens when 2 groups sit down and talk things over. Statistics have PROVEN the problems with deer hounds are not wide spread as your group leads on. (Remember we have the docs to prove) You are inciting fear and hatred into the non hound community in an attempt for financial gain to drive your agenda right down to Jones St in Raleigh. You are perpetuating the actions of 1% who are NOT houndsmen, they are OUTLAWS, ROGUES and RENEGADES and we have publicly denounced them as such. We offered a common sense approach 2 years ago to let us self police our own and it was not even considered by NCWRC. We want the outlaws gone even more than you do, trust me. The NCLOA was formed out of pure greed, plain and simple.

 

[DRS]

On another club where I dog hunt, they had a very bad day over property rights/lines. Glad I was not there that day! Landowner, owned 3 acres. He came out raising cane about someone shooting on his property. We leased 1500+ in that block. It really got bad when a neighbor across the road got involved. He stated he was going to have to kill somebody before it was over, all this while having an AR-15 in his possession. Long story short the law took him, the neighbor, for a ride, after he made a similar threat to the LEO. Come to find out the landowner who had the original confrontation, had his pasture fence, chicken coop and a deer stand on our lease. After, realizing this we just let things be and never had any other issues.

 

[woodmoose]

The "good" dog hunters may be in more of a minority than you guys want to realize.

or it's the ones who do it poorly that get all the press maybe?

just like you any activity,,,only the bad stuff generally gets the press

 

[Southern]

Heres the "rest of the story" Southern. The one you fail to share. There were some concerns in Warren County last year and your crowd tried to influence the county commissioners based on half truths and fear. We turned out in force more than once and proved those baseless claims were ALL FALSE. The Sheriff, area sergeant from NCWRC and county attorney were all there and further proved these claims were false as well. What did happen were the dog clubs in Warren come together and formed an association complete with a code of ethics and mission statements to protect BOTH the legal houndsman AND landowners in Warren County. Several meetings were held during our season at the request of the landowners and things got worked out. One of your loudest advocates has even gone on record and stated it was the most enjoyable hunting season as a non hunter EVER. This is what happens when 2 groups sit down and talk things over. Statistics have PROVEN the problems with deer hounds are not wide spread as your group leads on. (Remember we have the docs to prove) You are inciting fear and hatred into the non hound community in an attempt for financial gain to drive your agenda right down to Jones St in Raleigh. You are perpetuating the actions of 1% who are NOT houndsmen, they are OUTLAWS, ROGUES and RENEGADES and we have publicly denounced them as such. We offered a common sense approach 2 years ago to let us self police our own and it was not even considered by NCWRC. We want the outlaws gone even more than you do, trust me. The NCLOA was formed out of pure greed, plain and simple.

I would say you need to check yourself. I am not inciting fear or hatred and for financial gain? HOW exactly do I gain from that? Back off, I know you are pissed that your sport is under attack but making up crap like that does not help anything.

 

[Southern]

Ok so what is the solution to keep dog hunting alive and to keep dogs from running all over somebody else's land and impacting their use of the land? I mentioned regulations but was called a liberal so not real sure what the answer is but I can promise you, there are thousands of landowners down east who will jump on this non profit, lobbying bandwagon immediately if they think it will stop dog hunters.

Is your solution for the landowners to just shut up and take it because that is sure what all the arguments I hear sound like. I dont want dog hunting outlawed but something has to change. If no new regs because it makes you a liberal and no outlawing then does all of this fall on the landowner just bending over and taking it?

And what is my "group" you keep referring to? The ones that simply dont want dogs running all over their farm everytime they get into the stand? YOU sir are assuming alot about me. I said clearly I dont want it outlawed but yes if it keeps infringing on my land I would vote to let it go.

 

[DRS]

And what is my "group" you keep referring to? The ones that simply dont want dogs running all over their farm everytime they get into the stand? YOU sir are assuming alot about me. I said clearly I dont want it outlawed but yes if it keeps infringing on my land I would vote to let it go.

If you support a group such as the NCLOA or are a member that has such a mission statement you are manipulating the non-hunting public with falsehoods and misunderstanding. That would help you vote for something they don't understand and have been falsely educated and believed what they were being told, representing dog deer hunting as a rogue bunch over all. This is what I have a problem with. I will say to any dog hunter that the way you represent yourself in the community where you hunt is the start of a good defense from such attacks. Next is getting involved at the legislative end and showing support of the sport we love and educate the non-hunter.

 

[Southern]

I never said I supported that group . Based on looking at the website for the first time today after reading about it this morning on this site, I have to say that I am not impressed with what I saw. Their website is pitiful. I am not sure how anybody knew who started the organization as I could not find much of anything on the website. These non profits do tend to come and go, heck there are a dozen just like it for waterfowl that have never gotten of the ground.

 

[JDHowell]

I would say you need to check yourself. I am not inciting fear or hatred and for financial gain? HOW exactly do I gain from that? Back off, I know you are pissed that your sport is under attack but making up crap like that does not help anything.

because you have a vested interest in selling property, thats how. I can provide documentation on EVERYTHING i state here. Im not a dumb knuckle dragging redneck as you like to call us.

 

[ncdeerhunterRC]

Interesting point about inciting fear and false claims. When I became involved on the committee of landowners and dog hunters, it was obvious the county commissioners had "staged" irate landowners at initial public meeting. The intent was fear mongering for the uneducated (uneducated in terms of hunting/hunting deer with dogs) public. A significant amount of false claims on property destruction and safety issues were propagated and when pressed for evidence absolutely zero was produced. Also had a landowner stand up and say how "cruel it was to run a deer with a dog, to the point of complete exhaustion, that it just gave up" and that was the norm that dogs caught deer around his property. Also, every year after the season ended, dog hunters just dumped out all of the dogs they no longer wanted, starving to death. It had women at the meeting covering their mouths that such atrocity occurred. 100% of everything that was said was false and unsubstantiated, just to create public outrage. It was ridiculous.

 

[Tipmoose]

because you have a vested interest in selling property, thats how. I can provide documentation on EVERYTHING i state here. Im not a dumb knuckle dragging redneck as you like to call us.

I think you might need to settle down. None of Southern's posts have said anything like what you posted. He's pissed off that doggers don't respect his property rights. I am too. Instead of bitching about his opinion, how about offering a solution that will allow the problem doggers (the majority of them IMHO) to be punished while allowing the few that do it right to be able to continue doing it. What is YOUR solution?

 

[DRS]

I think you might need to settle down. None of Southern's posts have said anything like what you posted. He's pissed off that doggers don't respect his property rights. I am too. Instead of bitching about his opinion, how about offering a solution that will allow the problem doggers (the majority of them IMHO) to be punished while allowing the few that do it right to be able to continue doing it. What is YOUR solution?

Permits have been suggested. I don't see why our legislature could not legalize(make a law), a board of commissioners to over see a permit system. These commissioners would come from counties where dog deer hunting were legal and made up of houndsmen. That is my understanding of what happened when others went to the NCWRC and legislators the other year. They were told there was a legal issue with an independent board overseeing a permit issued by the NCWRC. Instead of trying to explore legal avenues the NCWRC just plainly rejected it and all the work people who where working on this was for nothing. Thank, y'all for that work. The legislative process, starting at the local level has worked good so far, but I would like to see the method of hunting protect for our future generatons.

 

[Tipmoose]

I would accept either a permit system or acreage requirements. As I said before, houndsmen had better get in front of this as best they can and carve out whatever protections they can. Of course it all depends on enforcement. If they continue to enforce dogging laws like they have, nobody will buy a permit or abide by a ban.

 

[shotgunner]

So like gun control, lets take the guns from the honest folks and leave the criminals with theirs.

 

[JDHowell]

I think you might need to settle down. None of Southern's posts have said anything like what you posted. He's pissed off that doggers don't respect his property rights. I am too. Instead of bitching about his opinion, how about offering a solution that will allow the problem doggers (the majority of them IMHO) to be punished while allowing the few that do it right to be able to continue doing it. What is YOUR solution?

My solution was one of the permit system. I was in the group that was asked by NCWRC to offer a solution. When we offered it, they didnt even consider it. I WILL NOT settle down when blatant lies are being told about anything. The problems with hounds are legitimate in MOST cases, there are laws already in place to prevent that and it shows the lack of ENFORCEMENT. Trust me, 99% of houndsmen do not want their hounds where they are not allowed. We spend too much time and money for that to take place. Mr Southern tell us your name sir, You know mine. Open dialog is key to any resolve.

 

[RJ1]

First before anything can happen both sides have to be willing to talk to each other in a civil and respectful manner, I have found out that's 50% of the problem once you begin to talk to each other most of the time an agreeable solution can be reached. On the clubs I belong to downeast took us years to get some of the land owners to talk to us because of stuff that happened 20 years ago but when we started talking we worked it out in the last 6 years we have had some minor issues but nothing that couldn't be worked,however I have some neighbors that are anti-dog hunting, anti-hunting and will always be that,does not matter to them what you are hunting with the dog.