Changes coming in N.C. Turkey season?

Brad_Colvin

Eight Pointer
I'm all for it because from reading a lot of these posts 75% of people wouldn't hunt if it was too hot or the grass was too high.

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Zach's Grandpa

Old Mossy Horns
All those who would like the season later should go out now til the end of May without a gun. Wear your camo and vest, take your calls and hunt like it was opening day. Besides being miserable see how many gobblers you can call into gun range. We all love the outdoors and understand that there is more to it than the kill, but the kill is the main objective.


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sky hawk

Old Mossy Horns
Contributor
(jug, I'm quoting you, but this is not directed to you)
The 3 times I talked to him, I could tell from talking to him that he was only allowed to do what the powers to be were allowing him to do.


Yes, and that goes for every biologist at every state game agency in the nation. Biologists don't get the final say - ever. They make recommendations based on biology and the state of the resource. Then a commission of appointed or elected politicians decide what the regulations will be. There may be no better example than the DMF and our marine fisheries regulations.

For every resource, there are stakeholders, and they usually all get to throw in their two cents. When making regulations, agencies typically balance the collective desires of the stakeholders with the biological needs of the resource. But some people don't understand that.

CRC, your question rings with a tone of superiority and condescension, but it reveals either a lack of understanding of how regulations are made, or at the least, a denial of reality (more likely). Sportsmen are the primary stakeholder with most wildlife resources. Their opinion matters and often drives policy. It is important to have balance and compromise. If the resource is to be protected at all costs, then we should shut all the seasons down permanently. If the sportsmen are given full access with no restrictions, then the resource collapses on itself. It is in striking a sustainable balance that gives the best result for both the resources and the stakeholders involved.

I don't think opening the turkey season one week earlier than the biologist recommended is a compromise that is a significant detriment to the population. Sunday hunting likely has much more of an effect. I'll just say it's a compromise between turkey populations and hunter preferences and leave it at that.
 
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waymoe1

Ten Pointer
(jug, I'm quoting you, but this is not directed to you)



Yes, and that goes for every biologist at every state game agency in the nation. Biologists don't get the final say - ever. They make recommendations based on biology and the state of the resource. Then a commission of appointed or elected politicians decide what the regulations will be. There may be no better example than the DMF and our marine fisheries regulations.

For every resource, there are stakeholders, and they usually all get to throw in their two cents. When making regulations, agencies typically balance the collective desires of the stakeholders with the biological needs of the resource. But some people don't understand that.

CRC, your question rings with a tone of superiority and condescension, but it reveals either a lack of understanding of how regulations are made, or at the least, a denial of reality (more likely). Sportsmen are the primary stakeholder with most wildlife resources. Their opinion matters and often drives policy. It is important to have balance and compromise. If the resource is to be protected at all costs, then we should shut all the seasons down permanently. If the sportsmen are given full access with no restrictions, then the resource collapses on itself. It is in striking a sustainable balance that gives the best result for both the resources and the stakeholders involved.

I don't think opening the turkey season one week earlier than the biologist recommended is a compromise that is a significant detriment to the population. Sunday hunting likely has much more of an effect. I'll just say it's a compromise between turkey populations and hunter preferences and leave it at that.

excellent post!!! that is the best i have heard it put. Also we need to police our selves and hold our selves accountable. There have been many times when i could have filled all my tags during turkey season and decided to fill one and was just as happy. i do the same with deer tags. i never shoot all the does that i have tags for. 1st cause i couldnt eat all the meat if i tried and 2nd because i dont think the deer in my area need it.
 

CRC

Old Mossy Horns
CRC, your question rings with a tone of superiority and condescension, but it reveals either a lack of understanding of how regulations are made, or at the least, a denial of reality (more likely).

No denial of reality here. Politics trumps biology in most cases. NC has 19 politically appointed commissioners that get the final say on most wildlife matters. More than any other state in the country.

But it still does not make sense for someone at the NCWRC to claim the turkey season does not need to be extended when agency policy is to support Sunday hunting and adding Sundays to the spring season and opening game lands to Sundays.
 

oldest school

Old Mossy Horns
i'll hunt them while the season is open. VA used to run two weeks longer than NC.

but in the scheme of things i will be worrying about something else versus NC changing the dates of the season.

actually if Brad's theory is correct I hope they do change the dates. :)
 

wolfman

Old Mossy Horns
I'd hunt them in July if there was a season.

That said, I love early season and the dogwoods/red buds blooming. Everything coming back to life and the coming of opening day is my favorite time of year.
 

Dolfan21

Ten Pointer
All those who would like the season later should go out now til the end of May without a gun. Wear your camo and vest, take your calls and hunt like it was opening day. Besides being miserable see how many gobblers you can call into gun range. We all love the outdoors and understand that there is more to it than the kill, but the kill is the main objective.


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exactly what I was thinking. The last week of the season this year was brutal. If this goes thru, that would be the first week. I'll hunt regardless, it just may have to set up a kiddie pool in a blind or hunt in shorts.
 
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sky hawk

Old Mossy Horns
Contributor
But it still does not make sense for someone at the NCWRC to claim the turkey season does not need to be extended when agency policy is to support Sunday hunting and adding Sundays to the spring season and opening game lands to Sundays.

With NC setting turkey harvest records and hunters demanding increased opportunities, especially on Sunday, you can't figure that out? Or is it that you refuse to recognize that agency policy and biologist recommendations are not one and the same?

It's called human dimensions in wildlife management.
 

CRC

Old Mossy Horns
With NC setting turkey harvest records and hunters demanding increased opportunities, especially on Sunday, you can't figure that out? Or is it that you refuse to recognize that agency policy and biologist recommendations are not one and the same?

It's called human dimensions in wildlife management.

I can figure that out which shows the agency doesn't care what it's biologists recommend.
 

sky hawk

Old Mossy Horns
Contributor
For someone who claims to be all about public input and hunter forums, I find it surprising that you refuse to acknowledge that the biologist's recommendation is just the first step in the process.
 

CRC

Old Mossy Horns
For someone who claims to be all about public input and hunter forums, I find it surprising that you refuse to acknowledge that the biologist's recommendation is just the first step in the process.

Not always

Not all changes originate with the biologist

Besides SH ultimately rested with the legislature but the WRC went along with it

Peace
 

turkeyfoot

Old Mossy Horns
Funny thing is where I hunt it was still hitting upper 30's at night not long ago and still would be just right turkey hunting weather next week but I get what all the eastern hunters are saying heat sucks. If season were still in would easily be able to pick off couple lonesome toms next week in comfort still henned up gobblers around but they are getting rarer had pic of 2 toms strutting with 2 hens this week
 

n.d.woods

Eight Pointer
If someone were smart they may realize season dates for the East and season dates for the West should possibly be very different.
 

turkeyfoot

Old Mossy Horns
For many years ENC opened 1 week before WNC..........was changed a few years ago!!:p

when was this I've lived here nearly 20 years and can't remember different dates, And yes it would put extra pressure on areas I know there is no way I'd wait a week to get my season started I'd be right there with you easterners but all in all still get 2 tags so western section would probably get better end of deal
 

wturkey01

Old Mossy Horns
Contributor
when was this I've lived here nearly 20 years and can't remember different dates, And yes it would put extra pressure on areas I know there is no way I'd wait a week to get my season started I'd be right there with you easterners but all in all still get 2 tags so western section would probably get better end of deal

I don't remember the exact year it was changed but I started hunting 40 years ago and it was a sometime after that.........maybe 30ish years ago?? :confused:

I ran into several ENC hunters who would hunt near their home for 4 weeks and then come to WNC for the last week...........of course there were some from WNC who went down there to open the season a week earlier!!

Limit is & was 2 gobblers per year!! No matter which end of the State you hunted in.
 

woodmoose

Administrator
Staff member
Contributor
if I may,,,,,,wturkey01 is correct,,,,from 1974 to 1979 the season dates were 2nd Saturday in April for the Eastern half of state and the 3rd Saturday in April for the Western half of state,,,they closed the "3rd Saturday thereafter",,,,,,

now where that dividing line was, I don't recall,,,,,,,
 

turkeyfoot

Old Mossy Horns
Wonder why they changed it maybe to keep the pressure even I would like to see that set up some best hunting west could be later in May but like siad only 2 tags no matter what.
 

wturkey01

Old Mossy Horns
Contributor
if I may,,,,,,wturkey01 is correct,,,,from 1974 to 1979 the season dates were 2nd Saturday in April for the Eastern half of state and the 3rd Saturday in April for the Western half of state,,,they closed the "3rd Saturday thereafter",,,,,,

now where that dividing line was, I don't recall,,,,,,,

I'm not sure where the line was either! But I used to think it was somewhere around Greensboro.

I had a friend who lived in Mebane and I remember him hunting before the WNC season opened.......he hunted Caswell County so I'm sure that was in the ENC zone.

It's important to remember that the turkey population back then was nowhere near what it is now!!
 

hunter

Eight Pointer
Contributor
I don't know about all that. I doubt NCWRC will do anything with the turkey season. I have heard that the deer seasons could be coming for some major changes in the next several years. Never heard anyone mention the turkey season being altered.
Yes I have heard Mike Seamster say the season should come in later but if I remember correctly he was meaning like the middle of April to Mid May. He never said to me why his opinion was never made law though.
I always wondered why the main man dealing with the wild turkeys did not get what he wanted made into law. Instead we got a season coming in a week earlier than what he wanted to see happen.
Makes me realize that politics and personal interests had more effect on the season as it is now.

I believe the first spring turkey seasons in NC started somewhere around April 20th with the idea being that most hens would be bred by then and the gobblers wouldn't be as important to the population. Also, a lot of the hens would be on the nest and less likely to get poached or shot by accident. Pressure to hunt earlier is a factor of birds gobbling and some hunters can't stand it. One WRC commissioner led the charge for the last change because he just wanted to hunt earlier and eventually got it moved. Too many hunters really don't seem to care much about the bigger picture as long as they get to hunt. Some of the states that have had turkeys longer then NC have seen declines in their flocks. They just got more pressure from hunters sooner to expand seasons or move them earlier.

Think about it, a lot of the most dominant gobblers get killed early in the season before passing on their genes and whatever might make them the most superior birds. That leaves the hens to get bred by lesser birds or even jakes in some heavily hunted areas. Kind of working against nature a bit.

All that said, it won't change until and unless the numbers get low enough that hunters complain.
 

nccatfisher

Old Mossy Horns
Contributor
It's important to remember that the turkey population back then was nowhere near what it is now!!
No it wasn't, the first 8 years I turkey hunted in NC was in Caswell county. There was little to no turkeys in many of the counties back in the middle to late 70's.
 

woodmoose

Administrator
Staff member
Contributor
not the 70's, but 1985 population density gives some idea,,,,

fakAfpoGU2ObkStibbLaZRMH2M8BErouUYr27AXV19pHJsErv9rVJCHG7Fy9vGZH-PcChfuwDmFcfg=w367-h220


or the estimated populations 1970 through 2015,,,,

26V5e6uVu98wQ21k2ZhXHh-t29k4P5p4sy6m-8UfEDJF6KMwfY3CshcADUSZ8UYNnyHVp2-P0f9b2w=w406-h220


or the kill stats,,,,,,,,

5JTrlTQV-gx0mFOxW8QSM8VxRT5xUGb6426GvxG6r3WBvGmIi4Z4kM12bOxD-R7caZu1NKa7VMqTDQ=w406-h220



despite the doomsayers and "sky is falling" crowd,,,,,this fellow thinks we are in the heyday of North Carolina turkey hunting,,,,,,,,,may blow up in a year or two,,,,,but it's been a great ride so far
 

woodmoose

Administrator
Staff member
Contributor
I believe the first spring turkey seasons in NC started somewhere around April 20th ,,,,,,.


the data I have,,,your a week late,,,,,first spring seasons were in 1968 and started 13 April,,,,,,,,ran for a week,,,,,,,,,season was in piedmont and coastal plain (closed in mountains),,,,,,,it was 1972 when they started the "3rd Saturday" seasons (around 20 April),,,,,,,
 

bowhuntingrook

Old Mossy Horns
not the 70's, but 1985 population density gives some idea,,,,

fakAfpoGU2ObkStibbLaZRMH2M8BErouUYr27AXV19pHJsErv9rVJCHG7Fy9vGZH-PcChfuwDmFcfg=w367-h220


or the estimated populations 1970 through 2015,,,,

26V5e6uVu98wQ21k2ZhXHh-t29k4P5p4sy6m-8UfEDJF6KMwfY3CshcADUSZ8UYNnyHVp2-P0f9b2w=w406-h220


or the kill stats,,,,,,,,

5JTrlTQV-gx0mFOxW8QSM8VxRT5xUGb6426GvxG6r3WBvGmIi4Z4kM12bOxD-R7caZu1NKa7VMqTDQ=w406-h220



despite the doomsayers and "sky is falling" crowd,,,,,this fellow thinks we are in the heyday of North Carolina turkey hunting,,,,,,,,,may blow up in a year or two,,,,,but it's been a great ride so far

^^^^ blow up in a good way hopefully, I know I'm happy with it now.
 
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