ellwoodjake
Twelve Pointer
What's the justification for this rule.? Seems kinda silly to me
Coopers 2022 Deer Recovery Thread
- Thread starter bowhuntingrook
- Start date
QBD2
Old Mossy Horns
There is none on the WRC/state side. WRC/state has a bunch of useless, pointless, silly rules, so its not alone and no surprise either.
Let’s the trackers get a bit more sleep tho
ellwoodjake
Twelve Pointer
If I had a jam-up tracking dog, I'd probably be tempted to go "coon hunting" after 11There is none on the WRC/state side. WRC/state has a bunch of useless, pointless, silly rules, so its not alone and no surprise either.
Let’s the trackers get a bit more sleep tho
bowhuntingrook
Old Mossy Horns
Part of legalizing it required restricting it, supposedly to help them enforce poaching or illegally hunting with dogs for deer at night then claiming they are tracking??idk
ellwoodjake
Twelve Pointer
How would someone poach deer with a leashed dog,? and if they could, wouldn't they just do it before 11? Sounds more like a solution, in search of a problem.
bowhuntingrook
Old Mossy Horns
I don't understand either bud, but they don't like anything hunting related with dogs and it was more recently legalized.
ellwoodjake
Twelve Pointer
I guess the wardens already have to deal with poachers with unleashed dogs, guns, and spotlights after 11, masquarading as "coon hunters". A few more folks with leashed dogs would just be too much!
bowhuntingrook
Old Mossy Horns
Now back on topic, hunters couldn't find it in the cutover, he heard it crash and made great shot, searched last night, walked by this deer 3x. It surprised Cooper, he tracked around it and came back to it this morning, worked through a lot of contamination, coyotes didn't beat us this time.
bowhuntingrook
Old Mossy Horns
Buxndiverdux
Old Mossy Horns
More dumb government rules. Especially since a person can legally hunt coyotes at night with thermal imaging gear and a rifle. All you need is a coyote call in your pocket and you are legal. A poacher wouldn't exploit this rule in any way.
Different story I suppose if they catch you with a deer...
lasttombstone
Kinder, Gentler LTS
I've been meaning to do this for some time and after watching this latest video I decided it was time to get it done.
Jeff, what you and Cooper do is fantastic. I'm not sure everyone really understands and appreciate all the work that has gone into the quality service you provide. While watching today, I was really taken by the way Cooper responds to your voice commands. From being on a hot track to coming to a dead stop on command and holding till you release him is remarkable. With his drive, if he was a long legged dog you would not be able to drop that lead like you do and if you held on to it you would be dragged to death. That little fellow really moves. The hours and hours of training work you put in a just a few years are obvious. It is no small task to train a dog to work that well and obey as well. I haven't seen any video of Woodmoos's dog but his narratives and certs are enough for me to know that he has been putting the hours in as well.
Your last statement about the restrictions on you guys was spot on. After seeing the deer that you found that were wasted to coyotes I sent an e-mail to my district Wildlife Commissione and to the Chairman as well, encouraging them to look into this matter and, hopefully, make some changes that would help the trackers and reduce the number of lost and wasted deer.
Years ago, when I was deer hunting with dogs, I wrote a song about my dogs, the guys I hunted with and the joy it brought me. Nothing would please me more than to be able to accompany you and Cooper on a track but those days are gone for me. Even that short legged demon would leave me and I would be sitting beside a tree, waiting for y'all to come back. But, fortunately for me, through your videos, I am able to be right there, watching the dog work and enjoying every minute of the experience. Thank you for what you have accomplihed and your willingness to share it all with us.
Jeff, what you and Cooper do is fantastic. I'm not sure everyone really understands and appreciate all the work that has gone into the quality service you provide. While watching today, I was really taken by the way Cooper responds to your voice commands. From being on a hot track to coming to a dead stop on command and holding till you release him is remarkable. With his drive, if he was a long legged dog you would not be able to drop that lead like you do and if you held on to it you would be dragged to death. That little fellow really moves. The hours and hours of training work you put in a just a few years are obvious. It is no small task to train a dog to work that well and obey as well. I haven't seen any video of Woodmoos's dog but his narratives and certs are enough for me to know that he has been putting the hours in as well.
Your last statement about the restrictions on you guys was spot on. After seeing the deer that you found that were wasted to coyotes I sent an e-mail to my district Wildlife Commissione and to the Chairman as well, encouraging them to look into this matter and, hopefully, make some changes that would help the trackers and reduce the number of lost and wasted deer.
Years ago, when I was deer hunting with dogs, I wrote a song about my dogs, the guys I hunted with and the joy it brought me. Nothing would please me more than to be able to accompany you and Cooper on a track but those days are gone for me. Even that short legged demon would leave me and I would be sitting beside a tree, waiting for y'all to come back. But, fortunately for me, through your videos, I am able to be right there, watching the dog work and enjoying every minute of the experience. Thank you for what you have accomplihed and your willingness to share it all with us.
ellwoodjake
Twelve Pointer
We should all be contacting the WRC about this. Waiting for daylight, and leaving an animal to the mercy of coyotes and heat; sure sounds like a "wanton waste" of natural resources. Many times, all Cooper is tracking is a set of antlers. For a doe, there's really not much use for him; and that's a shame. I'm sure he would enjoy pulling a little hair out of them as well.
bowhuntingrook
Old Mossy Horns
Lee, thanks for giving me that perspective on the videos. I probably wouldn't be doing them as much without you and others on this page enjoying them. I don't get as much from the videos as others do, probably because I get to experience it firsthand. The more tracks I would go on and I'd tell the stories and they started to become hard for people to believe. Some skepticism and maybe people think I'm embellishing stories, which is understandable, it's a wiener dog, and then I had those close encounters where the deer charged and roughed up my dog, and I was like dang, I should have had that on video. The more adventurous, most challenging and some of my most favorite tracks I've not got videos of yet, usually because I shut it off at some point and forget to turn it back on, or batteries die, but I will get some.
We may be many years apart in age Lee but you have that love for dogs and their jobs, just like I do, and I'll hand you a radio at the start of a track anytime and let you sit in a chair at the hit site and enjoy the sunrise if you want. I used to take my dad and sometimes my son, it's really not something I want them doing so I don't take them anymore. Meeting strangers in the woods somewhere, with firearms and wounded deer, then tracking through thickets quickly and usually me ending up 100's of yards away and separated, many times with no success. Many of these folks already believing their deer is dead, have tracked all over the place but trying to convince them to trust my wiener dog, sometimes it's almost a lose-lose situation I'm going into. But Cooper's effort usually sells them.
A few different things led me to into this passion for finding lost deer, the love for dog training, hunting and helping others. Who wouldn't want to be someone's "hero" for the day. I'm a paramedic/RN, its almost like being on the ambulance waiting for someone to call for help. And I'm fine with sacrificing my hunting, and some of my family time during this time of year to do the best I can. I post the recoveries, but for those wondering, we are I think 15 for 29 right now (not counting the girls buck we stopped on), national average is 30-40%, on-lead is on the lower end. Those 14 non-recoveries were way more demanding than any recovery was. More demanding because non-fatals run further and we continue on the track to reassure the hunter, "if it went this far, its less likely dead", or we jump it etc. Deer today was leg shot, looked more like shoulder bone, we tracked it 400+ yards 2 x through cutover, safe to say it's definitely not dead. It can also be very physically demanding, my legs aren't much bigger than Coopers it seems sometimes.
Thanks for all of you guys, lots of season to go!
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Buxndiverdux
Old Mossy Horns
If I ever need Cooper, I won't be questioning his abilities, wiener dog or not.
oldest school
Old Mossy Horns
Jeff-If you travel to help someone and their first comment is a weiner dog deal and you dont feel like justifying Cooper have them call me.
I'll be glad to discuss his abilities.
I'll be glad to discuss his abilities.
For the record the only ‘wanton waste’ rule NC has on the books concerns waterfowl and is federally mandated. They actually could care less. They state you must make a reasonable effort to retrieve game but once you do you can strip out the loins and throw the rest away and there isn’t a thing they can do about it.
A classic case of them encumbering trackers with all kind of useless rules and where rules are needed there are none to address an issue.
I'm not trying to derail the thread again, but there are people reading who are probably unclear on this. I think you're making this harder than it has to be. The proper and legal thing to do is to tag the animal upon recovery, and call it in within 24 hours or before dismembering or leaving the carcass. As mentioned, the prompt upon checkin asks if you killed it today, for just this reason.
It is not uncommon to have to leave one overnight and come back in the morning. It's no different if the next day is a legal hunting day or not. Or you may be on a camp and hunt somewhere with no signal and have to call in an animal when you finally reach civilization. They make provisions for that also, and the rules are pretty clear.
I have had to leave one overnight multiple times before, and indicated via checkin that it was not killed "today". Never got a visit, and I wouldn't expect to with the number of hunters vs. number of GW's in this state. There's probably dozens of people all across this state each weekend of the season indicating the same. I have also called one in the day after the season closed before. No issue. And if I did get a visit, I would have been perfectly legal.
Sorry. Carry on with Cooper's achievements. Keep it up!
ellwoodjake
Twelve Pointer
I'm not sure where the 24 hour thing comes from. If I'm not mistaken, it reads 12 noon the day after kill. After 12, no way would I tell that I didn't kill it today; I believe I would be incriminating myself.
Yea, I might be overthinking, and making it harder than it needs to be; but if you ever get dinged once, with some 
tag violation; where you're trying to do the right thing, you'll make damn sure it doesn't happen again. Everyone has to do what they think is right, but for me; I'll just not make the call if I'm not 100% sure about it. Everyone lives and learns, I guess.Oh well, Carry on Cooper!
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bowhuntingrook
Old Mossy Horns
This buck was shot last night, quartering away, hunter could not find any blood at hit site or on the 40 yard trail he watched the deer exit on. The hunter witnessed the lighted nock being carried off by the deer, estimated 1 foot of penetration but hunter never found arrow. With zero blood found the hunter backed out and attempted to find this deer this morning in the grown up power line he assumed he'd went to, but was unsuccessful. An archery shop recommended us and although he knew he would likely not get any meat, he called and was happy we'd put in the effort for him. I respect him for wanting to put this effort in for closure and if nothing else, a learning opportunity. We started tracking at 19 hours post shot, 2 hours after the phone call. Cooper was off quickly and entered the hardwoods, instead of cutting left and into the power line thicket as the hunter had thought. He continued through the hardwoods another 100 yards eventually going left into the powerline where Cooper weaved his way through it eventually spooking a bald eagle off the kill. The deer was 150+ yards from the shot. This was a small fixed blade broadhead we found under the skin of the far side shoulder, no exit. Entry was high and back but hunter was elevated with deer quartering harder then expected. A liver, diaphragm and 1 lung hit.
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bowhuntingrook
Old Mossy Horns
Last night I got a call from a hunter who said he shot a buck that was slightly quartering to him, his bolt and large mechanical broadhead passed through the deer, the bolt was covered in blood. The hunter was able to advance the track about 75 yards until the blood ran out. He did make an attempt at last blood to search that area and was unsuccessful at finding more. I got a picture of the bolt and I could immediately tell there was liver involved, blood painted the bolt. I had a good suspicion the deer would be dead soon due to the look of the arrow and the fact it was a large cutting broadhead that passed completely through the deer. With the increase of harvests being taken by coyotes overnight, I decided I would start the track at my 4 hour liver minimum wait time. We started in a field and Cooper entered the woods on the correct line so we continued, the hunter had marked the blood with ribbon and we were accurate to this line. When Cooper hit last blood just 75 yards from the start he slowed. A 4 hour track like this for a dog like Cooper is almost so easy it's hard. The reason is that the blood the hunter tracked by sight and the blood the hunter stepped on is very fresh and emitting a lot of scent into the air, creating a scent cloud that moves anywhere the wind takes it. At 4 hours old, if you can see blood, it is creating a scent channel. The issue with this is once we get to last blood, all the bloody boot tracks are also fresh and nearly the same age as the correct line. So Cooper is working inside a scent cloud, trying to track the hoof prints of this particular deer in areas the hunter couldn't visually see blood but tracked around it in blood splattered boots. In other words, Cooper is likely ignoring most of the blood he is smelling at this point because these false trails from last blood are not associated with the hoof scent of this particular deer. So we wait, and watch and let him work. When Cooper takes a line out of the area and loses interest I bring him back to last blood. He works out he puzzle quicker this time and eventually we take the similar trajectory out of this area and continue weaving through the woods, the pace is better now outside of the contaminated area. Eventually Cooper arrives at the buck a little over 200 yards from the hit site. Liver entry mid-body and exited intestinal. Beat the yotes.
Hunting Nut
Old Mossy Horns
Awesome work, Jeff and Super Cooper !!!!
Rescue44
Old Mossy Horns
Great narrative. Especially like your explanation of Cooper having to "figure it out".
Duck21
Button Buck
That is what I find to be really impressive about a good tracking dog. Not that they can follow scent or even old scent, but that they could figure out which deer they are after and decipher a contaminated track.
In one of the earlier videos, the speed at which he does it is also impressive. That same drop by drop blood trail through a cutover would take me 2 hours, if I could follow it at all, and it takes him 10 minutes.
bowhuntingrook
Old Mossy Horns
Took a track today, buck shot this morning, hunter tracked 100 yards through pretty thick cover and lost blood. I was called 7 hours after the hit, got there 8 hours after the hit. After looking at these pictures I'm thinking since hunter got full pass through on a broadside deer with bubbles, maybe dead within another 100 yards if double lung. Or worst case 1 lung and liver although hunter stated buck was broadside it may have turned. At 8 hours this track is quite easy for Cooper especially if fatal, after we start he's giving me all indications he likes it but when we get to over 250 yards past last blood I decide to return to last blood, check our work, slow down and try and find some blood confirmation. At the start of the restart Cooper moves forward then sits and whines, he's waiting for me. He does this again after he pulls 30 ft away, sits and whines then when I get close starts tracking again. This is my cue from Cooper saying this deer on this track is alive (although 300 yards away at this point) and he wants me close. I tell this to the hunter, and we continue forward and Cooper retraces our steps those 200 yards and another 100 past that. This time Cooper sits down at 300 yards from last blood whining again. I get the pistol out and explain to hunter again what is going on. We continue more carefully toward the bank of the pond and I see the deer bedded facing me as Cooper approaches it for a bite, the deer, while staring at me gets up and bolts left. As Cooper lunges for the wounded deer I can see the wound and blood on the deers side, the exit side shows liver. We back out. We jumped the deer 306 yards from last blood, I'm headed to work, we will have to get on it in the morning unfortunately.
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Sp8
Ten Pointer
Good luck in the morning. Keep Cooper safe!
bowhuntingrook
Old Mossy Horns
Hunter just called, he just glassed the edge of the pond and just found it about 100 yards down, that was his last run. No pic with him, no recovery unfortunately, can't blame him for glassing that pond edge, glad he got it before yotes.
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Sp8
Ten Pointer
Happy for the hunter and getting the meat but still think Cooper should get credit. Doubt the hunter would’ve found that deer in a responsible amount of time without Cooper.
oldest school
Old Mossy Horns
none of my business but if there was a fee discussed based on recovery I am sure the hunter did the right thing and paid Cooper- I mean Jeff.
the level of communication that you have with cooper is unimaginable and a testimate to the hours youve put in with him training. solid work!